See, you’re mistaken. You are asking irrational people to use logic.
Orange man great biznus man he will make Mexico pay tariffs and food will become cheaper. Also it will deport criminals (?) So I feel safe again.
And if it all fails exactly how I was warned, it is someone else’s fault, and I’m not stupid… Everything’s simply a conspiracy against me!
Funny enough, it’ll make food more expensive, because now there’s more leverage for the worker. But, ofc, RFK wants to make field work forced labour camps for the disabled, which will most probably coat the same as prison labour - which means that ordinary labourers will be even more devalued.
Something tells me with trump in charge, they’ll leave on purpose… There will also be a lot of Americans in the next 4 years migrating to other countries too
Mexico and Canada will have to build a wall to keep Americans out
But at least we won’t have gay liberal abortions, right?
I’m waiting the “pro life” crowd to start talking about assisted end of life, but so far is not even a talking point
They already are.
It’s specifically targeted in project 2025, making it federally illegal. The wording is such that they say assisted suicide for the terminally ill lacks dignity. Marvel at that bizarre phrasing for a moment.
Drowning in your own lungs is usually where the prolonged dying process goes. Pain. Anxiety. Panic. But assisted suicide, easing out safely, by choice, with less pain, is the part that lacks dignity according to the theocracy part of our incoming government.
It’s so bizarre to think about, that 74million voted for this very thing, in states that turned red, like Montana.
I just find it funny they don’t want it to be. Wouldn’t they rather have the “liberals” kill themselves? Even my own right wing parents have told me over the years they’d rather me smother them with a pillow than slowly die in pain and suffering.
It’s not that kind of suicide, you have to be plausibly within 6mos of death. They’re dying anyway. If anything, taking assisted suicide away is simply a method for torturing people and even causing their families pain.
We obviously discussed this during Thanksgiving and sincerely the talking points where asburd. Told them that is not being a right winger but thinking this 78 Y. O. Senile MF is going to help them in any way is just a joke and they’re a bunch of broke clowns.
That’s what the rolling back of child labour laws are for.
Particularly because citizens will not take those jobs.
At 20, a job was a job.
Me at 40+, physically incapable of doing that work - much less at the requisite speed.
Dammit, the one positive of suffering through summer temps is fresh produce.
When i see this kind of posts, i tend to ask myself : does being on the left wing mean you’re ok with illegal immigrate workforce being exploited in your fields and farms ? Just so you have cheap products AND go easy on your consciences ?
Well we certainly can’t be for open boarders. pauses for the gasps and pearl clutching
I mean, that’s specifically why I’m left wing. I don’t want to pay people a fair wage. I want to exploit people on my farms and the left will fight to ensure I can.
The US built itself up on immigration since the beginning, and most impactfully over the past hundred years with “brain draining” the rest of the world. “Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free” and all that. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say most of the US’s success comes on the back of these immigrants with 40% of Fortune 500 companies being founded by immigrants or children of immigrants.
But the economy has changed since that poem was inscribed on the Statue of Liberty. The US has become primarily a service industry demanding skilled laborers, relegating manual laborers to the lower class along with the illegal, and often unskilled, immigrants.
So you’re a blue collar American living in Appalachia, vying for the same factory job that your dad and his dad held and were able to afford a middle-class lifestyle. Except now groceries are getting hard to afford, fueling your truck hurts, and your new neighbor is a programmer who wanted a country home to relax in and work remote and finds your accent charming. You know you’re now at the bottom of the ladder, and you think the illegals willing to do your work at half the price are the cause. So deport all the imigrintz! Bring back white America! Make America Great Again! /s
I don’t have all the answers, but I think we should continue to restrict unskilled immigration and continue making it risky for companies to hire illegal immigrants, while offering a path to legality for those having been here for 5+ years. Raise the minimum wage, effectively securing a better lifestyle for those at the bottom (immigrant and native). Make some better/strategic investments in Central American countries so that people there have a better lifestyle and it isn’t worth it for unskilled labor to immigrate. Hell, build some manufacturing capacity so we’re less reliant on China.
Everyone prospers, America continues brain-draining, and the world keeps turning.
Not risky. Suicidal. They find you have “illegal” immigrants working for you? You get a fine so big you have to close your business from prison.
The other option: legalize all those immigrants and they become the owners of the business.
only when it allows you to do cheap gotchas on the right /s
when you get past your cryptic pseudo-profound wink wink question, what exactly are you trying to say?
Immigrants are good. Exploiting them is bad.
Allowing so many illegal immigrants to do these jobs just goes against those who are working or wanting to work legally and allows those illegal immigrants to be abused to hell and back because of their status. If more workers are needed as in not enough local workers, sure I guess you could alleviate that with legal migration. But solving it with rampant illegal immigration is hell for everyone involved.
But I feel like much of the worker issue is solved with better work conditions and better pay. At some point that becomes untenable for sure but some sort of rethink might be warranted if an industry doesn’t work without decent living conditions and without abusing illegal immigrants for pennies.
If the problem is that some immigrants are categorized as illegal and some are not, why not get rid of that categorization? If companies are not paying people enough, why not just add a minimum wage?
The problem is that the current system does a poor job handling these cases. As a leftist, it makes more sense to me to make laws to fix the issues as opposed to saying it would be hard to make changes without law changes or inconveniencing owners who like paying shit wages to immigrants, better keep the current system that is causing human suffering to continue.
It’s not very realistic in the world we live in to just have everyone come in. It will become unmanageable for everyone very quickly. If you want to have a better avenue for the existing illegal immigrants to become citizens, sure, but you’ll also need some stricter immigration control since that’s a massive callsign for more illegal immigration. And soon you’d have the same issue even worse.
If the solution is to just change the system, I’m all for it. I just see it happening anytime soon. So trying to make things better now while waiting for the system to change, that is much more manageable and likely to happen, so at least do that imo.
So if your problem is that we might have too much immigration. Do you support cracking down hard on farms that use illegal immigration labor?
Or is that also too much to ask?
Because at a certain point if it’s all too much to ask, your position from a utilitarian, is legitimately keep everything the same.
Do you support cracking down hard on farms that use illegal immigration labor?
Well of course? That seems like an obvious step to take. Crack down on existing illegal practises and move to prevent them from happening.
That sounds like all the more reason to be for legal immigration and against illegal immigration.
The GOP won’t pass legislation for more legal immigration. Our economy relies on immigrants, so it means that we are reliant on illegal immigration to function.
What I don’t understand is why Republicans are against having a permanent legally exploitable underclass which is what we currently have.
“They’re taking away our jobs!” ? Although I think it’s about power - if you’re not reliant on other countries, then you don’t have to take other things into consideration. You can be selfish and do selfish things.
But having illegal immigrants do hard work for basically nothing is the selfish thing.
…but we are reliant on other countries. We import over 15% of our food and these changes are going to drastically reduce our output. We will only start relying more on other countries.
You seem pretty confident that’s the end goal of the politicians.
All the more reason to be for legalizing immigration and against illegalizing immigration.
Focusing on the immigrants rather than the system puts the blame in the wrong place, and obfuscates solutions to the problem.
Most people on the left are in favor of giving the immigrants we all rely on official status, giving them the same legal protections as other workers. That can be through making the legal immigration process easier or a guest worker program.
It is like that but it’s not always like that. Hispanic workers at a food factory a friend of mine worked would talk about hitting up blueberry picking season as a side gig in the summer.
I’d personally love a path to citizenship instead of turning illegal immigrants into slave labor which is absolutely coming next. I’m guessing you’re one of those people that like to trot out this high-and-mighty shit a lot while downplaying the consequences of what’s actually happening.
They won’t deport them. Being illegally working in the US will be punishable by 5 years forced labour in food farming.
Yes, they will. This is what it’s like to be governed by idiots.
Exactly, they want the labour even cheaper and without right. They want people who can’t complain. They don’t want to pay social taxes.
And like you said, cherry on the cake if they get free labour. Mmmmm those profit margins!
But we’ll still raise the price because nobody wanna work
After seeing how horrific factory farming is, I’m genuinely wondering if I’d be psychologically better off with 5 years of prison. Or 5 years of war
I’m not even vegan, but what the fuck does that say about society? That the job that feeds you might require you to experience something so horrific, you’d prefer prison, maybe even war? …
It’s a bigger whip to keep the proles heads bent.
Get with your friends and neighbors and start hatching a plan to grow some of your own food starting next year. At worst you have fun and eat well.
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Oh look, dipshit fascist
If you don’t want Lemmy to descend into another Reddit echo chamber shit hole, you have to at least tolerate people of very different (even wrong) opinions when they appear open to discuss rather than just restoring to name calling
It is an echo chamber already. You say anything controversial concern trolls come out the woodwork and accuse you of baiting and brigade you.
I have some political views that differ from the Reddit / Lemmy mainstream by quite a bit. But I find the downvotes on Lemmy quite harmless. And it at least seems far more likely that someone will have an honest conversation. That’s why it’s a shame to see people jumping straight to insults.
you have to at least tolerate people of very different (even wrong) opinions
Nope, not if they’re a fascist
You can go ahead and associate willingly with Nazis, I wont
Conversation != Approval
“Associate” is an ambiguous term
you also have to be ready people will reply to you. free speech is not free from consequences.
Lol, short term pain will destroy any administration, well that is if democracy were at play. Checkmate i guess.
You’re right, our voting population is very short-sighted.
We don’t make everything because that’s inefficient. We trade with other countries because it is efficient.
It would be like looking at your butcher, your metal worker, and your farmer, pointing at the butcher and saying, ok, now you need to do all three. There’s no logic to it. If we have orange juice and soy beans and Canada has metal, it makes more sense to trade. Every 4x game with trade you’ve ever played works like that for a reason.
And this automation you speak of doesn’t create more jobs.
The other factor. Homeless. There are people who won’t engage drug free housing because it’s drug free. Transition housing in Portland OR sits partially empty. Why? You can’t make people do what they don’t want to do. ( I said partially, not all.). There will always be people who “don’t wanna”. Naming such a large swath of different people as a potential resource when there isn’t as much there as you indicate, doesn’t work. And for those who would work it’s not that simple. Housing, showers, and in many cases drug rehab and mental health will be needed before practical work engagement can happen. People are messy, not easily quantifiable as resources. And they cost money to fix.
And you’re forgetting the biggest element. People voted for Trump because they expected prices to go back to 2016-2020 prices. Any increase is going to incite those guys, incite some of his base, to the nth degree. Maybe you’re ok with it, but unlike you, people actually living paycheck to paycheck will not be. I really don’t want to see more angry MAGA gatherings.
You’re not living paycheck to paycheck, or you would not be talking like this.
When I play 4X games and can’t produce all the resources or research in my supply chain, I just go straight to Fanatacism (or the equivalent) and go for mass conquest.
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That’s not what “illegal alien” means?
Per Merriam-Webster: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/alien Alien, noun: a. a person who is not of a particular group or place
Sorry, alien doesn’t always refer to extraterrestrial life. They’re just as human as anyone else, they just don’t belong here in their current legal status. Resident aliens also exist - they’re the people who came in legally and are not yet naturalized as citizens of this country. You might be about pull out the “no human is illegal” axiom against me, to which I’ll respond, it is not illegal for them to be human. It’s illegal for them to be here as they are, like any other form of trespassing. If they come here legally, according to law and custom, then they’re Americans - or at least they’re resident aliens working for the benefit of America.
The inflation that will be caused by Trump’s tariffs isn’t going to be “short term”. If he does what he says he’s going to do and the next president undos all of it, inflation is expected to get down to where it should be (i.e. pretty close to where it is now) in 10 to 15 years.
trade war with mexico where 70% of US vegetables and 50% of US fruit will not help either. Nor will talking down to California, where most of the rest is from. I hope you red staters like corn and pork for every meal.
Jokes on you some even have maize
It’s amaizeing
Due to agribusiness, that’s already 70% of their diet.
Sometimes libs don’t realize their mask slipped. “They do the jobs we won’t” is bougie shit. People will do anything that pays well enough, isn’t abusive or unnecessarily dangerous, and doesn’t involve being housed in a bunk on-site.
These migrant workers are being abused by capitalists, and arguably we aren’t even seeing the savings anyway, for what that would be worth.
Great point. People would take farming jobs if the pay was decent and all of those abusive “festures” you mentioned are missing.
Should change the phrase to “They do the jobs we would never do for such little pay and benefits.”
Sounds like we need to start punishing companies instead of desperate people. I’m sure Trump will get right on that
Hmmm, it’s almost like we need to abandoned the DNC and the neoliberal antiquated way of thinking. Hmm, hmm, hmm. Oh wait, were you trying to offend someone?
Hmmm, it’s almost like we need to abandoned the DNC and the neoliberal antiquated way of thinking.
And replace it with… with… um… with…
Anything else.
It’s a sunk cost.
It’s hurting you to keep investing in it.
Your reasoning is the exact reasoning of someone who keeps investing into a sunk cost.
Your reasoning is the exact reasoning of someone who keeps investing into a sunk cost.
What is my reasoning?
“replace it with what”
That’s it
That’s it
No. That’s a question. To indicate my reasoning I’d have to make one or more statements. Otherwise y’all speculatin’
Being aware of the reality of the situation doesn’t mean you support it.
Let the urban farmer flourish.
Watch “community focused” small businesses struggle while their they “success friends” disappear so they can make a community focused on something other then capitol. Maybe they’ll become urban farmers or intersectionalize with a passed skill like sewing or smut writing.
Get outside y’all go play chess with the old dude at the park. Go call the neighbor kid a little shit. Engage with your community.
Listen here, you little shit . . .
I can feel the engagement! It tingles a little. Yeah, I’m hooked.
I’m gonna go grow some beets in a vacant lot.
(Snarky, but also serious. This would be a good time to get to know your neighbors and your local farmers.)
While I love and support urban farms, would it really be enough space to feed everyone? Google says that each person would need about 600 sqft of space to grow the food they’d need, multiplied by the millions of people in a city… I just don’t see how the numbers work.
That is a valid concern. I doubt all the pressure of food distribution would be only on urban farmers it would have to be a coalition of multiple food sources to support people with no capitol. Half a million people in my city would require 6887 acres to feed everyone. Sounds like we got some
savingseizing to do.
And imprisoning people in slave labor camps that happen to be next to farms is not “deporting”.
When you vote to deport grandma but still take her presents on christmas.
