‘It’s quite soul-destroying’: how we fell out of love with dating apps::For a decade, apps have dominated dating. But now singles are growing tired of swiping and are looking for new ways to meet people – or reverting to old ones
I did online dating for many years. I used match, eharmony, tinder, pof, okcupid.
I fully understand the ‘soul destroying’ comment. For me it was a lot of work for little return. I started off being selective. Messaging one person at a time so I didn’t end up getting two responses and having to put someone off or turn one of them down. That was naive it turned out as I got very few replies. So I started messaging multiple people at once. I always tried to personalise things but my effort varied with how optimistic I was feeling about online dating.
Ultimately I think I got responses about 10% of the time. From them, 10% turned into a date, from those maybe 50% would get to a second date.
So overall it every hundred messages I’d write , 1 would end up in a date. I went on quite a lot of dates over the years, but I had to devote so much time to getting them it was, soul destroying.
I never thought i was unattractive, but online dating made me question if I really was. I never thought I was an ass, but online dating made me question if I really was. I would sometimes have very long conversations before meeting to find there was no chemistry in person. Sometimes I would like them when we meet and they would ghost me. Sometimes they liked me and I didn’t like them, but I always tried to be honourable and tell them, not ghost them since I didn’t like it happening to me.
I am male in case my experience doesn’t make it obvious. I often spoke to some of the women I got on better with about how online dating was for them and their experience was pretty awful for different reasons. Generally they were bombarded by messages and a good number of them were obscene. Guys trying to hook up rather than date. To manage their inbox was a real challenge and they probably missed out on good matches because of the noise.
My overall impression of the whole thing is that it generally sucks regardless of whether you are the one doing most of the messaging or whether you are receiving messages. I also think it makes it more like shopping than dating, dehumanising people. Do I want the 8K 42 inch TV or the 4K inch TV? Actually, can I even afford it?
All that said in the end it worked for me. Over 6 years since I last logged in and I think it was a bit of an addiction, or perhaps desperation born of loneliness.i also have a daughter now and there were times I thought that was never going to happen.
So for me online dating was years of frustration, difficulty and upset, but in the end I’m glad I did it but it took a long time.
It’s very superficial and any of the girls who are remotely attractive get tons of messages, plus they have to be on edge for anything out of the ordinary.
The one thing I’ll conceed to Pim Tool about online dating is that it can easily funnel all women to the top value men. That said, the most desirable men are going to exclude the unattractive women. Based on observing other people dating online, it seems like younger girls who are unattractive are aware that they can get older dudes who are probably desperate.
No it isn’t. Those things are nothing but trouble
Dativerse when? Seems like this is ripe for disruption by a free solution
I’ve thought about it before. The thing is with all the images getting loaded so much it would get expensive quick.
Yet Lemmy exists right now with videos and everything
I think most major instances only allow linking to videos and won’t allow you to directly upload it.
I think the bots and scammers would pose a much bigger problem
Easy solution: date the bots and scammers!
I think those could be dealt with, but just the sheer bandwidth of someone loading 3-10 images per profile and then rapidly flicking through them and onto the next one…
The storage costs would be one thing, but the bandwidth of that would be another entirely.
As much as I’d like to think that people would donate, I’ve found the majority of people to be pretty cheap and unwilling to donate money for something they can get for free.
And wait til you see the pool of actual candidates.
There’s this pleroma instance and this github project.
Yes, why can’t Lemmy just work for that?
Just create a “City Nama, M4W/M4M/W4W/W4M.MM4W…etc”
That would work no?
It turns Into hookups and sexually explicit pics if reddit was anything to go by. But if it was for relationships not just hook ups, I’d like it.
There’s no women on Lemmy tho.
Anyone can be a woman with the right leg and penis tuck strategy LOL.
Not with that attitude
No, because newer or more upvoted is not better. The way Lemmy is set up for news makes it bad for leaving a page up for your profile and getting people to look at it over time
This has definitely been my experience. 8 years after my last relationship and I’m still single. I’m an average looking guy, I put up nice pictures, I filled out the profile, I spent time crafting a good opening message, etc… I had maybe 30-50 conversations, most of which quickly died out, some just wanted to keep talking for weeks before we met, at the end I think I ended up with less than ten actual dates, none of them went to a second date.
My first therapist even suggested an experiment (edit: this was actually my idea,but he supported it): replace my profile pictures with those of a male model and see if I get tons of messages or it stays the same. I ended up getting about 3 or 4 more messages total then usual, none of them went anywhere either.
What was your therapist’s theory they were trying to test, that you might be ugly? Seems a very odd thing to ask you to do.
It was my idea but he supported it, pretty much testing to see if my pictures were the issue or not.
Some people say to never use selfie shots, others say it’s fine. Some say to have only pictures of you with no one else, others say it’s fine. It’s difficult to figure out what actually “works”.
I’m guessing they knew that it likely wasn’t a problem with being ugly, so the therapist did this ‘experiment’ as a way of demonstrating that. Seems pretty solid to me, actually.
Yeah it was my idea but he supported it, and pretty much wanted to help me prove that it wasn’t my appearance, just shitty apps. He said he had a bunch of clients that were in the same boat as me. I work in IT and do programming on the side, so I have an insight into how these things work, and of course if you actually find someone the app loses your business, which is bad for them, so it’s beneficial for them to string you along.
This is the interesting thing about looking hot. It brings its own host of problems; serious problems they aren’t really acknowledged by society at large because of apparent privilege.
I couldn’t really find scientific research to back this claim up. Can you elaborate and back your claims up?
People actually want to be with you so it attracts the crazies. Opposed to us uggos that just get ignored.
You had 30-50 matches over eight years? Where do you live, bumblefuck?
Also the apps aren’t for conversations. They are for meeting people. If you are trying to have a lengthy conversation on Tinder, you’re putting screws in with a hammer.
Nope! Manhattan, the polar opposite of Bumblefuck! The problem there is the sheer amount of people, even average or below average women will get bombarded with 10s or 100s of matches a day and just as many messages, so you just get lost in the crowd if you’re not a perfect 10. Also there’s a lot of dudes in the city that are just creepy as fuck. I’m obviously not good with women, but these guys make me look like Casanova. Women almost always have their guard up because of that. I just moved to Miami 2 weeks ago and it’s a breath of fresh air (both literally and figuratively haha) to have strangers be friendly and want to talk to you.
I was never trying to have in depth conversations with these women, I wanted to jump from the match right to the date. They’re the ones that wanted to wait days or weeks until a date happened.
I mean I live in Brooklyn and I get about one date a month. Probably more if I hit the apps every day instead of just tinder. And I’m a pretty average guy with a big deal breaker.
I’d love to see more of what guys who are failing are doing differently than me.
I lived by Park Slope (Windsor Terrace) for a year (moved out of NYC in June) and yeah I got a fair amount of matches, but half of them never turned into actual dates because people were too busy with their lives. I’ll admit that I did get more matches when living in Brooklyn than when I lived in Manhattan, but as you’re aware, Brooklyn is fucking huge.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
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“I’m always in a state of flux.” Lacey’s approach might not suit everyone looking for love, but she is one of a growing number of people rejecting swiping on a screen and taking their dating lives offline.
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Many say the apps feel like work and there is a genuine sense of burnout as people struggle to commit to what is essentially hours of admin a week alongside their day jobs and other responsibilities.
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“You really have to set some standards – people can be so keen to help that they tend to overestimate how good-looking or interesting their mates are, or they try to suggest the only single person they know, no matter how unsuitable – but it has worked quite well.
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The benefit of meeting someone vouched for is also driving Clare, 38, from Bath, to explore her options, after having signed up to numerous dating apps over the years, only to quit after a few months each time.
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She has done slow dating at Shambala festival, with an emphasis on doing exercises that could help to make emotional connections, including questions like, “What are you most proud of in your life?” and “What’s the biggest challenge you’ve overcome?”
(tldr: 12 sentences skipped)
“You have the opportunity to meet heaps of other cute, single people in real life with no stuffy or awkward first-date vibes because if you don’t click with someone, you can just excuse yourself and chat with someone else,” she says.
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The original article contains 2,349 words, the summary contains 269 words. Saved 89%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Pim Tool likes to rant about online dating, but the reality is that there are dudes that can only date this way.
The thing that concerns me though is that eventually more people are going to identify as “awkward” and will refuse to go on dates with anyone they meed IRL and feel like everyone should only contact them online. We already see this with irrational fears of talking on the phone where millennials and zoomers insist on communicating exclusively through texts.
Who would have thought that looking at 5 pictures and a shit bio would lead to you not being able to find a meaningful relationship?
OkCupid wasn’t like that until Match bought them.
My buddy met his wife on Hinge during COVID. He’s a good looking dude that dresses well. Me? I’m not exactly the most photogenic person and my sense of style is “I work in IT” 😄
Wearing clothes that fit is the most important thing for being good at men’s fashion. A very simple tshirt and jeans can be really affordable and attractive IF they fit.
I apparently have an odd body shape, shorter legs and I carry all my fat in my gut, so it makes finding comfortable jeans very difficult. What fits me is about a 31 or 32" waist (before I gained weight, now it’s like 35") and like 28" or 29" length, but no stores sell that so I started buying them online. Also I have minor gynecomastia (“bitch tits”) so tight shirts just look bad on me. I’m nipping like a woman in a freezer.
Before COVID I dropped 45 pounds and went down to 135 pounds at 5’9", everywhere else I had practically zero fat, but still had a decent sized gut and man boobs even though I had like 12.5% body fat. I bought a bunch of clothes that fit, then couldn’t do anything for 9 months and gained the majority of it back.
I’m trying again after 3 years and will need to buy new clothes again, but this time for a tropical climate, so it should be easier to find clothes that fit me well since most shirts everyone wears are button ups to let the air through and shorts.
This lines up with the experience of single friends I’ve seen. I wonder how much of it though is that those who are left on the dating market are on there for a reason?
Namely they select for avoidant types who when trouble arises are more likely to embrace singledom
I’m anxious attachment style, but latterly maybe do tend towards fully avoidant because I can’t face anymore pain. Not a great position to be in at 35.
I guess we’re ignoring the subscriptions and bot accounts. The primary reason I never paid for any of it nor spent longer than a month on any of them.
I’ve paid for bumble, hinge and tinder multiple times over the past 7 years, all it got me was less money in my bank account.
Once you realize their business model incentivizes them to not get you a life partner because then you’d stop using the app, they kinda don’t make sense to use.
Their business model doesn’t really require that, as relationships have a natural attrition rate, and new people are constantly entering the market.
Back in the day, plenty of fish did an interesting blog post on that very topic. Unfortunately, it vanished when they were brought up by one of the big dating site groups that now dominate.
They also did some amazing meta data analysis of their users, and discussed it publicly. E.g. including the word “awesome” in your opening message improved multi message response rate by 18% (from memory).
It was actually OkCupid.
They also did one where they looked at how men and women rate each other on looks, and found that women rate a whopping 80% of men as below average attractiveness.
This was made back when you could rate profiles out of 5 stars.
I stand corrected. I used both back in the day. I even met my wife on there! Somehow I got the 2 swapped in my mind.
The way I remember them is that POF had a horrendous turquoise website design and looked like a circa-2003 webpage that hadn’t been updated in years, while Okcupid was a lot more competently designed.
And having a practical monopoly by Match doesn’t help either.
That pisses me off more than anything.
I really wish the FTC would go ham on Match Group and break up that monopoly…
Kinda like Luxottica being the reason why most sunglasses cost $175 for $0.10 worth of plastic.
I met my partner on Kijiji. Never been happier, so they can work just fine.
I admit I’m as surprised as anyone because it was such a slog before talking to her initially.
I liked what bumble did with the “lifetime premium”. It gives them an incentive to actually get you a match.
Coincidentally… I met my current girlfriend on Bumble after trying a litany of apps over the course of years… Definitely not saying it’s a good or easy option though. Part of it is that I’m picky, but I treated it a lot like a job for years to get this relationship.
I think the lifetime premium is a joke because you’re paying a lot up front instead of monthly or weekly. Yeah, they may get less money, but probably not. As the article says, people tend to stop using them after a month or two regardless of the outcome (that’s definitely my experience), so getting like $150 up front for lifetime access is a lot better than someone paying $35/month for two months.
For me, it was definitely a huge money saver. Working in tech (now a remote job), not drinking, not being religious, and having extremely “meet a girl” friendly hobbies like hiking and gaming … it was extremely limiting.
A 1 time $150 was a steal compared to some of the other apps like the scam that is eharmony.
Wow we’re like the same person… Maybe I should give this lifetime Bumble a try
I mean, if you’re wasting money on other apps… And you just want an app with a pretty good population that you’re not constantly paying money into and also not artificially knee capped on… It’s a pretty good deal assuming they still offer it
I was you for 5 years (12 hour shifts 7-7, 6 months night, 6 months day, worked 3 days a week and every other Saturday) but in Manhattan. I bought 3 and 6 month subscriptions and I think that was the only time I actually got dates on there. I was surprised when I got one a few months back on a free account.
Met my wife on Bumble and we just had a baby in June
Wait until you find out that she isn’t real, and you’ve been transferring almost all your savings of semen to one nasty guy in Nigeria…
(lol, this presumes you haven’t even met your “baby” yet, only believed in the cute photos your “wife” sent of them, since she still needs a bit more money (probably crypto or giftcards) to be able to afford the transport to come live with you!)
Hopefully, it’s a very different story. Anyway, congratulations!
Congratulations :)
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All these dating apps are owned by the same company and are all kinda scammy. It’s very much a pay to play scenario.
Back when OkCupid first came out and they hadn’t figured out how to make you pay for everything, it was awesome. I went on so many dates.
Fast forward to last year and I’m dating again and try OkCupid and it was a totally different experience. I never would get messages organically. You have to subscribe to the premium package and then you have to pay to get more super likes so that women actually see your account. It’s pretty ridiculous.
So don’t use it as a gage to judge yourself. It’s just about how much money you spend on the app.
Sounds like I got out at the right time with OkCupid which is where I met my gf back in 2014. I recall when I was divorced further back in 2008 how Lavalife, Plenty of Fish, Match, and Craigslist were the places I felt like a kid in a candy store due to when I was first married, online dating apps weren’t a thing yet.
OkCupid was much better than eHarmony and Tinder had just come out and it wasn’t so money driven then. Sounds like it is much more so now.
I heard about the lawsuit Tinder was in over fake profiles driving users into premium features but I don’t think they were alone with that either. It’s a shame how some of these services went through change to drive revenue and some are no longer around at all. It was kind of like a golden time to meet people when it was still becoming more acceptable than the cold approach in a club, bar or grocery store for those of us not really into those scenes.
What I liked about the dating apps then was both parties stated what they were looking for and we both we were there for dating. Cold approaching often meant someone is not on that wave length unlike the dating app. I found people were there for the same thing for the most part. Dating of some form being Casual all the way up to married and have my babies. For me it felt like a short cut over trying to figure that out in real time in public.
Today with the apps driven towards looks only I have to wonder if it is more a play on stroking one’s own ego and dopamine hits from the randomness of collecting matches versus actually meeting people in real life. I could see that a big bump for someone with no real intention of dating unless it was one of the top 5 percent of the users. Overwise it’s just another way to keep us from being bored like scrolling through social media…
stroking one’s own ego and dopamine hits from the randomness of collecting matches
I know that’s what a lot of people get out of it but it’s so surreal to me because my experience has always been the exact opposite. I get virtually no matches or likes, so being on a dating app is just a steady drain on my confidence, and the more I try to engage with the app, the worse it gets.
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My buddy has been married for like 2 or 3 years to a really cool, smart, and beautiful woman. He dated her for like a year or two before, and they had known each other before that. When I was hanging out with him one night, the topic of dating and the apps came up, I told him it was all a scam now, they want you to pay for everything. He was like “WTF? They only give you a certain amount of free swipes a day and then you either have to pay more or wait? That’s some bullshit bro.”
Of course before you pay they entice you by saying you have like 10 or 15 matches, but you need to pay to see who they are. One you pay that number is cut in half or less, and they’re usually not people you’d be attracted to anyway
Hobbies if you have time or money? And not hobbies for the sake of trying to find someone romantically, but something you genuinely enjoy. Local game stores can be a good way to find out about other adjacent events (if they are big enough) or trivia nights at bars, etc.
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Ahh most of my hobbies have mostly outpriced me as well.
When I was motivated to go out and do hobby stuff, it was mostly a male dominated space so 90% of the time I just felt like a meat bag, and it really killed my desire to go out and do hobby stuff. So I ended up mostly at home.
The problem is that a lot of my hobbies are male centric.
Picking up something for the sake of finding someone is a shit reason to pick a hobby, to be frank. You mentioned the girl who said all the guys kept hitting on her and she was trying to just have a beer or whatever, that’s how it feels from a woman’s perspective. You’re just trying to go out and do something menial in life that everyone should be able to enjoy unmolested, or have the right to at bare minimum, and suddenly it’s dick o’clock.
I mean idk. I see it from a woman’s perspective, having been in that situation numerous times, I can tell you 90000% of life would be easier if I was just a dude. I could just go out and enjoy absolutely banal, stupidly mindless shit and nobody would bat an eye, because penis, I guess? Being objectified blows ass.
Not saying you were one of “those” guys, but to put it in perspective maybe, both of you were at opposite ends of the lonely spectrum, and felt isolated for different reasons.
I think everyone would be a lot happier in life, or at least at peace, with some solid introspection and having a sit down (with yourself) about things. There is so much social pressure to go out and do XYZ because fomo and you get so easily swept up in it when your immediate social and cultural circle is constructed on potentially damaging or dated concepts. I think there is much more to be gleaned from asking why you feel a certain way then trying to find how to put a bandaid on it.
You’re out there dodging bullets my man. Don’t let others define your self worth.
Sorry I can’t help with the dating advice. I’m old as fuck and married forever and the modern dating scene seems weird to me.
For what it’s worth, my son met a lovely girl while travelling. He also met lots of cool people through local online groups in the areas he was traveling to. Not sure if that’s useful at all.
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I feel you bro. I lived in Manhattan for 3 years and got maybe 3 dates, a lot were just conversations on the app that went nowhere. I was like how the hell can I not find someone in a city of 8 million people (NYC in general)?! My buddy met his wife on Hinge during COVID. All it showed me was transgender people and “bottom of the barrel” people where I was like “you can’t seriously think that this is a good picture of you”. We lived about 4 miles apart.
I think the biggest kick in the balls was when my ex and I broke up. I went on bumble and literally 3 profiles in it recommended her to me!
I’ve had friends, professionals, and strangers on Reddit review my profiles, my therapist (who was around my age) looked over my profiles too. Everyone said there wasn’t really anything bad that stood out to them. If they did have any suggestions they usually conflicted what someone else had told me.
It’s been 8 long, lonely, depressing years. I’ve gone to social events via meetup and most of them were either dudes outnumbering women like 4:1 of it was a big mixer, or if it was something small it would be like 5 or 6 people just standing around at a bar or something being awkward. I started going to board and cars game nights three times a week, one of them had a fair amount of attractive women, but they always had their guard up because all the lonely dudes there would have the same idea. I became friendly with two of the cute regulars early on, I played it cool for a while. When we were waiting to order drinks at the bar one of them said “ugh, all these guys won’t stop hitting on me, I just want to play games.” and I was thinking “well… Shit…”
I finally got so fed up with everyone being so closed off up there (and other reasons) that I just moved 1300 miles away to Miami where everyone is a lot friendlier. I’ve only been here for 1.5 weeks and it definitely isn’t as easy to find social events to meet women and make friends like there was in NYC. They largely all sucked, but at least the opportunity was there. People are at least more willing to talk to strangers here though!
I gave up on online dating last year and I won’t be back. If that means I’ll end up dying alone, I’m honestly more comfortable with that idea than suffering though anymore of the bullshit that’s Tinder/Bumble/Hinge/etc. It’s become such a miserable experience for both sides (men and women).
As someone who had used online dating on and off for 10+ years, I can tell you one of the big problems - money and greed. I know it’s always easy to just “blame capitalism”, but I’ve seen first-hand the paradigm shift from an actual useful service (i.e. a way to meet people that you would otherwise not meet) to the blatant greed it’s become. The dating apps are so obviously profiteering off people’s loneliness it’s fucking disgusting. Back before Match bought everyone up, these services used to actually be okay for what they were.
Best to try meet people in the real world. It’s good for the mental state (especially nature and bodies of water), increases chances of meeting somebody, etc.
Dating apps are deeply, deeply enshitified because the economic incentive for them is the exact opposite of what monogamous users want. Specifically, the apps want you to keep subscribing, plus buy the super platinum plus extra added packs, but never really find someone and date them, because then you stop paying. Old school pre-sellout OKCupid had a great analysis of this in their blog, which was taken down the day they sold out.
This is why the few sites/apps that cater to non-monogamous or event based communities are still reasonably decent, e.g FetLife, Bloom and Feeld, though Feeld is partially down the enshitification pathway.
I’d be really interested in seeing what a fediverse dating app would be like, something that didn’t have the financial incentive to enshitify, and maybe had a match/search system like old-school OKC.
EDIT: missing word.
The dating apps would still be useful if they haven’t broken themselves in order to make short-term profit.
If they hadn’t all sold out to the same company who then ruined each one of their purchases that would also help as then there would still be some competition in the market. But sadly it’s now become monolithic and completely pointless
Coming from somebody in their early thirties who has had nothing but atrocious luck with women in general, I’ve mentally checked out of dating.
Every dating app is now a carbon-copy of Tinder where you can’t pull a lady unless you look like a fucking Chippendale, are above 5’11" tall, have your own property and are sufficiently wealthy. It also doesn’t help that Match Group hold a virtual monopoly over the market, with Bumble as their only credible competition. They literally profiteer from making the experience as miserable as possible so they can sucker you into paying a £40/month subscription.
Match also put the bare minimum into moderating and policing their apps. The sheer volume of love scammers, fake users and spammers shilling OnlyFans pages is massive, and it feels like they really couldn’t give a shit about enforcing their own rules.
Online dating really is that soul-destroying, and the longer I spend trying to use any app, the less it surprises me that the incel, MGTOW and red pill communities are growing, and that people like Andrew Tate and Sneako have such a huge following despite being such garbage human beings.
At the same time I wish there was a better alternative.
