‘It’s quite soul-destroying’: how we fell out of love with dating apps::For a decade, apps have dominated dating. But now singles are growing tired of swiping and are looking for new ways to meet people – or reverting to old ones
Most dating apps are looking to make a profit first and provide a good service second. This is terrible, but we live in a capitalist hellscape so it’s not surprising.
HOWEVER. A lot of people are really bad at using dating apps. This is kind of a peeve of mine and I’ve been thinking of writing a book (or at least a blog post) about how to do better.
The premise is “throw the ball back”. So many people match and then just drop the ball. Their profile says they love NK jemisen so you write “she’s great! Did you read her new book 'the city we became '? It’s a total love letter to New York”. A fine message. And they write back “No”. End of message.
My dude that’s not how this game works. They’ve thrown you the ball with their message. You’ve caught it. Now throw it back by asking a question of your own.
If you’re not interested or don’t have the energy to be present, don’t say anything. If you’re not interested, just unmatch. If you don’t have the energy, come back when you do. If you never have the energy, delete the app you’re not ready.
And to all the people who just message with “hey”: please do better. You look incompetent when you do that.
That’s true of like all text messages, come to think of it. Some of you assholes probably message me at work on slack with “hey” instead of starting with the important part.
Also don’t be a fucking pen pal. If they matched and responded to your initial topic well, just ask them out. That’s what you’re both here for.
I’m an extremely average guy who doesn’t date men. If I can do this so can all of you.
Meme representation of what happened:
When people find a partner, the dating service stops making money from them.
I agree. My sister and I both found our partners through online dating. I never found a decent partner until I completely changed by strategy, so yes, a lot of people are bad at it. Conversely to don’t say “hey,” don’t send massive walls of text with your entire biography either.
There are some people that online dating works better for. My sister is a trans lesbian in a conservative state and is only attracted to cis women. It’s not going to be easy for her to just go out and date.
If you’re a lesbian, stay away from any services that allow searching for “friends.” My sister was very upfront about being a lesbian with a penis and she still got tons of messages from creepy dudes
When people find a partner, the dating service stops making money from them.
Weirdly, most of the dating apps don’t really support ethical-non-monogamy. You’d think that’d be an easy source of repeat money. But ENM is a whole other tangent. People get mad about it.
Conversely to don’t say “hey,” don’t send massive walls of text with your entire biography either.
This is good advice, too! I’ve encountered too-much text far less often than not-enough, so I didn’t think to include it. Typically if I find myself wanting to write more than a couple sentences at once, I turn that into “I’d love to talk more about this on a date”.
The last woman who sent me far-too-much text also sent me a completely generic opener. I think it was “What’s the last piece of art that moved you?” This probably seemed smart and deep to her, but in my opinion it’s not a good opener. It’s generic. She could have sent that to anyone. Nothing on my profile indicates I have a particular relationship with art. Do not send a first message that could have gone to anyone. What you send should be particular to them.
Yeah. You need to give the message that you actually read their information and you’re not just trying randomly to score.
Regarding your last two sentences: it’s a chore to do so for 30+ women a day per appwhen it’s mostly a negative feedback loop, the more you do it the more you hate that you’re doing it because you’re trying to be sincere and unique and you’re not getting responses, you try to be generic and you get no responses.
If she has a very basic profile with just the basic info, the only thing you can comment on are the pictures (her) and her info.
It can definitely be a chore. And extremely disheartening. But that’s the world we live in. And hopefully love in, as my phone autocorrect wanted to say. For you this might be the 20th original message you’ve written today, but for them this is their first impression of you. Make it count, or you’re just self sabotaging.
Also, if you’re getting 30+ matches a day, that’s a good problem to have. I get like a couple a week, and about half turn into dates. Some I reject, sometimes they reject me. I’m a guy who doesn’t date men.
But anyway, I don’t really disagree but I always recommend when it starts to feel like a chore that you hate: take a break. The apps will probably always be here. Go outside. See your friends.
I also just don’t bother messaging people who don’t have anything in their bio/blurb to talk about. The rare times they message me first, it’s almost always “hey” tier bad.
I’m not saying I get 30+ matches a day, I’m saying “I send 30+ messages a day on various apps, not just Bumble and get nothing in return”. It’s like applying for a job. It’s spending $35/month in hopes that you get a response.
Pim Tool likes to rant about online dating, but the reality is that there are dudes that can only date this way.
The thing that concerns me though is that eventually more people are going to identify as “awkward” and will refuse to go on dates with anyone they meed IRL and feel like everyone should only contact them online. We already see this with irrational fears of talking on the phone where millennials and zoomers insist on communicating exclusively through texts.
“Fell out of love”
Quite a shame how the partner who had a spouse that beat the shit out of them and stole their wallet every day FELL OUT OF LOVE with that spouse…
Okay but they’re talking about dating apps here.
Woosh
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Of course not, most of the dates are still found by going outside
Dating websites were useless, turning them into phone applications just made them even less engaging then they already were.
An extremely tiny percentage of dating website users get anything positive from it. You might as well play a lottery instead.
I just don’t see this. I’ve had lots of success and I’m not a typically attention-grabbing person on a dating app (my first line is about how I’m married).
I have numerous friends who met their long-term partners on dating apps.
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I wouldn’t say that. I know several people in long term relationships that met on Tinder.
Dating apps are deeply, deeply enshitified because the economic incentive for them is the exact opposite of what monogamous users want. Specifically, the apps want you to keep subscribing, plus buy the super platinum plus extra added packs, but never really find someone and date them, because then you stop paying. Old school pre-sellout OKCupid had a great analysis of this in their blog, which was taken down the day they sold out.
This is why the few sites/apps that cater to non-monogamous or event based communities are still reasonably decent, e.g FetLife, Bloom and Feeld, though Feeld is partially down the enshitification pathway.
I’d be really interested in seeing what a fediverse dating app would be like, something that didn’t have the financial incentive to enshitify, and maybe had a match/search system like old-school OKC.
EDIT: missing word.
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I feel you bro. I lived in Manhattan for 3 years and got maybe 3 dates, a lot were just conversations on the app that went nowhere. I was like how the hell can I not find someone in a city of 8 million people (NYC in general)?! My buddy met his wife on Hinge during COVID. All it showed me was transgender people and “bottom of the barrel” people where I was like “you can’t seriously think that this is a good picture of you”. We lived about 4 miles apart.
I think the biggest kick in the balls was when my ex and I broke up. I went on bumble and literally 3 profiles in it recommended her to me!
I’ve had friends, professionals, and strangers on Reddit review my profiles, my therapist (who was around my age) looked over my profiles too. Everyone said there wasn’t really anything bad that stood out to them. If they did have any suggestions they usually conflicted what someone else had told me.
It’s been 8 long, lonely, depressing years. I’ve gone to social events via meetup and most of them were either dudes outnumbering women like 4:1 of it was a big mixer, or if it was something small it would be like 5 or 6 people just standing around at a bar or something being awkward. I started going to board and cars game nights three times a week, one of them had a fair amount of attractive women, but they always had their guard up because all the lonely dudes there would have the same idea. I became friendly with two of the cute regulars early on, I played it cool for a while. When we were waiting to order drinks at the bar one of them said “ugh, all these guys won’t stop hitting on me, I just want to play games.” and I was thinking “well… Shit…”
I finally got so fed up with everyone being so closed off up there (and other reasons) that I just moved 1300 miles away to Miami where everyone is a lot friendlier. I’ve only been here for 1.5 weeks and it definitely isn’t as easy to find social events to meet women and make friends like there was in NYC. They largely all sucked, but at least the opportunity was there. People are at least more willing to talk to strangers here though!
You’re out there dodging bullets my man. Don’t let others define your self worth.
Sorry I can’t help with the dating advice. I’m old as fuck and married forever and the modern dating scene seems weird to me.
For what it’s worth, my son met a lovely girl while travelling. He also met lots of cool people through local online groups in the areas he was traveling to. Not sure if that’s useful at all.
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All these dating apps are owned by the same company and are all kinda scammy. It’s very much a pay to play scenario.
Back when OkCupid first came out and they hadn’t figured out how to make you pay for everything, it was awesome. I went on so many dates.
Fast forward to last year and I’m dating again and try OkCupid and it was a totally different experience. I never would get messages organically. You have to subscribe to the premium package and then you have to pay to get more super likes so that women actually see your account. It’s pretty ridiculous.
So don’t use it as a gage to judge yourself. It’s just about how much money you spend on the app.
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Sounds like I got out at the right time with OkCupid which is where I met my gf back in 2014. I recall when I was divorced further back in 2008 how Lavalife, Plenty of Fish, Match, and Craigslist were the places I felt like a kid in a candy store due to when I was first married, online dating apps weren’t a thing yet.
OkCupid was much better than eHarmony and Tinder had just come out and it wasn’t so money driven then. Sounds like it is much more so now.
I heard about the lawsuit Tinder was in over fake profiles driving users into premium features but I don’t think they were alone with that either. It’s a shame how some of these services went through change to drive revenue and some are no longer around at all. It was kind of like a golden time to meet people when it was still becoming more acceptable than the cold approach in a club, bar or grocery store for those of us not really into those scenes.
What I liked about the dating apps then was both parties stated what they were looking for and we both we were there for dating. Cold approaching often meant someone is not on that wave length unlike the dating app. I found people were there for the same thing for the most part. Dating of some form being Casual all the way up to married and have my babies. For me it felt like a short cut over trying to figure that out in real time in public.
Today with the apps driven towards looks only I have to wonder if it is more a play on stroking one’s own ego and dopamine hits from the randomness of collecting matches versus actually meeting people in real life. I could see that a big bump for someone with no real intention of dating unless it was one of the top 5 percent of the users. Overwise it’s just another way to keep us from being bored like scrolling through social media…
stroking one’s own ego and dopamine hits from the randomness of collecting matches
I know that’s what a lot of people get out of it but it’s so surreal to me because my experience has always been the exact opposite. I get virtually no matches or likes, so being on a dating app is just a steady drain on my confidence, and the more I try to engage with the app, the worse it gets.
My buddy has been married for like 2 or 3 years to a really cool, smart, and beautiful woman. He dated her for like a year or two before, and they had known each other before that. When I was hanging out with him one night, the topic of dating and the apps came up, I told him it was all a scam now, they want you to pay for everything. He was like “WTF? They only give you a certain amount of free swipes a day and then you either have to pay more or wait? That’s some bullshit bro.”
Of course before you pay they entice you by saying you have like 10 or 15 matches, but you need to pay to see who they are. One you pay that number is cut in half or less, and they’re usually not people you’d be attracted to anyway
Hobbies if you have time or money? And not hobbies for the sake of trying to find someone romantically, but something you genuinely enjoy. Local game stores can be a good way to find out about other adjacent events (if they are big enough) or trivia nights at bars, etc.
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Ahh most of my hobbies have mostly outpriced me as well.
When I was motivated to go out and do hobby stuff, it was mostly a male dominated space so 90% of the time I just felt like a meat bag, and it really killed my desire to go out and do hobby stuff. So I ended up mostly at home.
The problem is that a lot of my hobbies are male centric.
Picking up something for the sake of finding someone is a shit reason to pick a hobby, to be frank. You mentioned the girl who said all the guys kept hitting on her and she was trying to just have a beer or whatever, that’s how it feels from a woman’s perspective. You’re just trying to go out and do something menial in life that everyone should be able to enjoy unmolested, or have the right to at bare minimum, and suddenly it’s dick o’clock.
I mean idk. I see it from a woman’s perspective, having been in that situation numerous times, I can tell you 90000% of life would be easier if I was just a dude. I could just go out and enjoy absolutely banal, stupidly mindless shit and nobody would bat an eye, because penis, I guess? Being objectified blows ass.
Not saying you were one of “those” guys, but to put it in perspective maybe, both of you were at opposite ends of the lonely spectrum, and felt isolated for different reasons.
I think everyone would be a lot happier in life, or at least at peace, with some solid introspection and having a sit down (with yourself) about things. There is so much social pressure to go out and do XYZ because fomo and you get so easily swept up in it when your immediate social and cultural circle is constructed on potentially damaging or dated concepts. I think there is much more to be gleaned from asking why you feel a certain way then trying to find how to put a bandaid on it.
I really loved OkCupid back before they sold out. They would share a lot of interesting data on their blog posts, and seemed genuinely interested in making successful matchups based on how your profile was presented to others. It was fun to be on there and didn’t feel like you were just being presented for “dateable” you were if you didn’t want to be.
I also met my wife on OkCupid, but that was just before the site really took a nosedive. Pretty annoyed they deleted my account without warning, so the first message she ever sent me is gone forever.
My wife and I also met on OKCupid, probably around the same time as you – Tinder-like features were starting to appear, but the core of the experience was still about reading other users’ personal essays and comparing compatibility quiz responses. Of all the services I tried, OKCupid (in that particular incarnation, at least) seemed like the only one that was genuinely aimed at fostering deep personal connections. I haven’t been on any of the apps in almost a decade now, but it really seems like the shallow, gamified Tinder model of “swipe right if they look hot” ate up the marketplace, to the detriment of everyone.
Yeah that’s literally all it is now, a few apps are like “there’s no swiping here” but then the mechanic they came up with is worse.
If you want to save stuff like that, it’s good to save it because sites disappear. There are also a lot of weird “privacy” obsessive people who have a bizarre fixation of wanting accounts to be “deleted” if they don’t sign in for a certain amount of time, and some sites are starting to give in to them.
Check for emails in both of your accounts and you might be able to find the text of it there.
This lines up with the experience of single friends I’ve seen. I wonder how much of it though is that those who are left on the dating market are on there for a reason?
Namely they select for avoidant types who when trouble arises are more likely to embrace singledom
I’m anxious attachment style, but latterly maybe do tend towards fully avoidant because I can’t face anymore pain. Not a great position to be in at 35.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
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“I’m always in a state of flux.” Lacey’s approach might not suit everyone looking for love, but she is one of a growing number of people rejecting swiping on a screen and taking their dating lives offline.
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Many say the apps feel like work and there is a genuine sense of burnout as people struggle to commit to what is essentially hours of admin a week alongside their day jobs and other responsibilities.
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“You really have to set some standards – people can be so keen to help that they tend to overestimate how good-looking or interesting their mates are, or they try to suggest the only single person they know, no matter how unsuitable – but it has worked quite well.
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The benefit of meeting someone vouched for is also driving Clare, 38, from Bath, to explore her options, after having signed up to numerous dating apps over the years, only to quit after a few months each time.
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She has done slow dating at Shambala festival, with an emphasis on doing exercises that could help to make emotional connections, including questions like, “What are you most proud of in your life?” and “What’s the biggest challenge you’ve overcome?”
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“You have the opportunity to meet heaps of other cute, single people in real life with no stuffy or awkward first-date vibes because if you don’t click with someone, you can just excuse yourself and chat with someone else,” she says.
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The original article contains 2,349 words, the summary contains 269 words. Saved 89%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Who would have thought that looking at 5 pictures and a shit bio would lead to you not being able to find a meaningful relationship?
OkCupid wasn’t like that until Match bought them.
My buddy met his wife on Hinge during COVID. He’s a good looking dude that dresses well. Me? I’m not exactly the most photogenic person and my sense of style is “I work in IT” 😄
Wearing clothes that fit is the most important thing for being good at men’s fashion. A very simple tshirt and jeans can be really affordable and attractive IF they fit.
I apparently have an odd body shape, shorter legs and I carry all my fat in my gut, so it makes finding comfortable jeans very difficult. What fits me is about a 31 or 32" waist (before I gained weight, now it’s like 35") and like 28" or 29" length, but no stores sell that so I started buying them online. Also I have minor gynecomastia (“bitch tits”) so tight shirts just look bad on me. I’m nipping like a woman in a freezer.
Before COVID I dropped 45 pounds and went down to 135 pounds at 5’9", everywhere else I had practically zero fat, but still had a decent sized gut and man boobs even though I had like 12.5% body fat. I bought a bunch of clothes that fit, then couldn’t do anything for 9 months and gained the majority of it back.
I’m trying again after 3 years and will need to buy new clothes again, but this time for a tropical climate, so it should be easier to find clothes that fit me well since most shirts everyone wears are button ups to let the air through and shorts.
The problem with dating apps is the commodification of human relationships. The way people use these apps is too superficial. They’re looking for the perfect man or woman, so if there’s something they don’t like or that person has a flaw, they don’t take the time to really get to know them on a deep level. There’s a lot to choose from! FOMO!
Perfection does not exist in this world and we must really try to connect on a deep level. Unfortunately, some people use these apps for window shopping and shallow relationships.
I saw a terrible new dating app that was all about how super incredible you are and how you should only accept true partners who can battle your wits and income level, while it made vague references to coders and crypto.
It’s a website for those antisocial nerds that think themselves superior and anyone that goes on there is always going to be judging every partner as to their closeness to perfect. Anyone on there is a narcissist for sure.
What a terrible reduction of spouse to that. No wonder no one is having kids and people are lonely. That is how the “elite” view themselves and each other. Our society deserves to be burnt to the ground.
On the backend, no company could fulfill their promise if a “special sauce” to successful matching that was especially better than anything anyone else had, so they focused on impulse matching that worked best for short-term satisfaction and hookups. This worked for the dynamic of what people expected, and the reviews and word-of-mouth remained generally high— until we all got burned out on meaningless, futile, superficial relationships.
So, what comes next?
7 of 9 just lookin for perfection baby
I agree with this but would say it’s just one of the problems.
I always have trouble with the idea that in reality these dating apps can’t want you to be perfectly successful or else you’d never use them again. There’s a real insidiousness there
It used to be socially acceptable to ask a stranger for their phone number. Some would agree, some wouldn’t and I’d thank them for their time.
I tried this in 2019 at a restaurant and got a look like, “wtf is wrong with you?”
I did well on dating apps when the format was like email because I could showcase my personality, which doesn’t come through easily in a text message format (never been good at small talk with strangers; writing letter let me really express myself). Luckily, I’ve found my partner, though I was worried it’d never happen.
Modern dating apps also suck for dating if you have average looks.
I once went on a (second) Tinder date in Wolverhampton.
Some random stranger genuinely approached my date’s uni friend and asked her for her Snapchat. She gave it to him.
Less than 15 mins later when we’re in the supermarket, she gets an unsolicited dick pic from him.
Nudes were what snapchat was made for. That was one of the only reasons anyone I knew got it back when it came out. Half those users were under 18. I’m sure it has changed a lot but likely leaves a imprint that holds over time.
That’s because someone can easily track your address via a phone number. This is why I have a burner VoIP number to give out until I trust people.
It used to be socially acceptable to ask a stranger for their phone number. Some would agree, some wouldn’t and I’d thank them for their time.
I tried this in 2019 at a restaurant and got a look like, “wtf is wrong with you?”
Maybe at a bar, but I’ve never heard of that in a restaurant. It also depends on the context, too.
“I’ll give you my Insta, you can hit me up on there”
I gave up on online dating last year and I won’t be back. If that means I’ll end up dying alone, I’m honestly more comfortable with that idea than suffering though anymore of the bullshit that’s Tinder/Bumble/Hinge/etc. It’s become such a miserable experience for both sides (men and women).
As someone who had used online dating on and off for 10+ years, I can tell you one of the big problems - money and greed. I know it’s always easy to just “blame capitalism”, but I’ve seen first-hand the paradigm shift from an actual useful service (i.e. a way to meet people that you would otherwise not meet) to the blatant greed it’s become. The dating apps are so obviously profiteering off people’s loneliness it’s fucking disgusting. Back before Match bought everyone up, these services used to actually be okay for what they were.
Best to try meet people in the real world. It’s good for the mental state (especially nature and bodies of water), increases chances of meeting somebody, etc.
