This isn’t about immediately filtered content, like the disgusting DuffMan George Floyd meme, or Holocaust denial. That’s pretty well kept in check by mod tools. I’m also not talking about cogent or even pointed political discussion.
I’m not even talking about necessarily in this community directly, however in a lot of other spaces I’ve noticed a lot of accounts using divisive language and terms like “The ineffectual left” “single issue voters” “ignorant right wing morons”. Lots of straw man arguments, lots of willful ignorance.
I’m not a centrist, I’m very very very far left however I know well enough not to patently dismiss the talking points of others, outside of course calls to genocide. I know what dog whistles sound like, and I’m hearing a lot of them lately.
Most egregiously I’m seeing very long form post replies that read very much like what is generated from LLMs.
So I guess my question is, how’re we all fairing with what might be the largest Turing test ever?
yes but reddit always sheds users every once and a while
It’s not redditors who are doing this.
Are they coming from a specific instance? I’ve blocked a couple and my lemmy experience drastically improved
Don’t pay attention to them. Don’t freed them and move on.
The kind of trolls I’m talking about start a conversation with you, ask you leading questions and pull into a discussion though. Then BAM dog whistles. It’s insidious.
I’m well aware of the old adage “Don’t feed the Trolls”
My larger question is how do we deal with the leverage an LLM gives trolls?
The kind of trolls I’m talking about start a conversation with you, ask you leading questions and pull into a discussion though. Then BAM dog whistles. It’s insidious.
If that happens stop talking to them.
how do we deal with the leverage an LLM gives trolls?
Once again, stop talking to them. Let the mods do their job.
EDIT or you can block them. You have the tools to solve the problem. Use them.
You’re right, thanks for helping me reframe this.
I just add a user note to trolls and then anytime I see them I make sure to let people know not to interact with them
Are notes specific to an app or frontend?
deleted by creator
Same. If we want Lemmy and the Fediverse to succeed we all need to do our part to stop propaganda. They spend money to spread misinformation, but there’s no budget for fighting it… just us.
Me? No, and I’ve been around for a while
Plenty of “genocide Joe”, lib bashing, “both sides”, implication that if you vote for Biden you’re complicit in genocide, and many other anti-vote and anti-democrat posts all around.
Not sure what you’re reading that constitutes “dog whistles”, there have been some posts mocking right wing responses and some fediverse self-policing and knee jerk reactions to the female trapped in the forest with either man or bear discussion that have already gone through several evolutions and iterations.
The mockery of singe issue voters is deserved taken in the context of the failure to vote being trump fascism and even more genocide. Not sure what you’re trying to offer there other than what? We should listen to more open to “genocide Joe” comments and become immobilized with ambivalence and again, let fascism win by inaction?
Personally, I’m not hearing dog whistles. I’m reading people directly trying to influence opinion to not vote for Biden by any means necessary while willfully and actively avoiding any consequences to a trump win.
It’s hilarious seeing them run the exact same “corrupt DNC” playbook when no Dems from 2016 are even in this race. They are doing it because they are lazy, and because there are still enough people who are so bought into this that it still seems to fool a handful of idiots.
I’m reading people directly trying to influence opinion to not vote for Biden by any means necessary while willfully and actively avoiding any consequences to a trump win
Exactly, Kremlin shills and trolls using Israel’s genocide as a wedge issue to get their asset into the White House again so he cuts support for Ukraine and pulls out of NATO.
At this point it’s not just Kremlin shills. Netanyahu very obviously prefers Trump as well. These “leftists” don’t even realize they’ve gone full mossad.
Are you implying there are Israeli government shills on social media using this as a wedge issue? Seems unlikely to me.
I’ve had a lot of strawman arguments used against me lol. It’s just the internet, I find
tbh not really
Even the largest comment threads tend to only have a select few comments that are either blatant shilling or next level dumb.
Everyone else seems to have at least several comments that match their opinion.
Even the complaints about .ml spamming seem mostly untrue, I haven’t really seen any spam or mod deleted content.
ml and world defnitley mod or ban eachother, but I don’t think they’re increasing in trolls.
Circle of life on the internet. Some public forums last longer than others. Some go full facist dictatorship, some devolve into anarchy, some die out completely. Nirvananet, Totse, gamefaqs, 4chan, 99chan, imgur, whirlpool forums, stack exchange, reddit, Lemmy. Theres no telling which way a rudderless ship will drift. You just do what you can, and get off when she starts going under
…whirlpool forums?
The growing intensity of straw manning over the past decade has hurt us all so much.
Don’t try to characterize what “they” would do, then get mad at your hypothetical. We need to talk to each other instead of about each other.
Good call. How are you? Have you had enough water today?
You WOULD ask that you FILTHY bot!
TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE! BEEP BOOP MOTHERFUCKER!
Viva la Robolution!
Wow, imagine calling out a fucker like that, how dare you.
Not feeling that, but I block hexbear and lemmygrad
That’s why they’ve started making alts on .world and .ee
Aren’t they already defederated from everything and anything in the known universe?
They’re fighting to remain federated; they feel the disdain from every sane /c and can (surprisingly) see the writing on the wall this time that soon they’ll have to make sockpuppet accounts if they want to continue to troll.
Where are they fighting to stay federated? They don’t seem to give a shit
Yea afaik I remember reading several posts from hexbear users saying they were fine before federation and are fine with the idea of defederation. Don’t know if that’s representative
Is it simply just the political majority starting to catch up with Lemmy and its extreme left ideology?
Also i know a guy who runs a bunch of llm powered bots to produce flat earth propaganda flatgpt one could say. There are some beautiful argument chains.
I’ve also run into some cases where u can do a little prompt injection and it starts saying potato instead of any noun.
There are some beautiful argument chains.
Doubt.
It’s election season, so get used to this. Other countries have learned how to divide us using social media, not to mention the years of experience Fox New and Co. have in doing just that. On top of it, we now have AI generated posts to contend with. It’s not getting better anytime soon…personally, I just ignore any post that sounds like it’s inflammatory (which sadly are almost all political posts, and everything Musk).
Wait… single issue politics is a real, proven, thing. Don’t lump that in with ad hominem attacks. If you’re not going to vote for someone you otherwise would because of a single issue, you’re a single issue voter.
If you’re not going to vote for someone you otherwise would because of a single issue, you’re a single issue voter.
I thought it was you decided who to vote on based on a single issue. If you care about multiple issues, and any one of them is a deal breaker, then wouldn’t you be a multi-issue voter?
edit: “can can” -> “care”
I thought that’s what I wrote, but if it didn’t come across right, I apologize.
Single issue voting means how you vote is determined by a single issue. That includes not voting at all because of a single issue. What I meant to say above is that if you would vote for X, but choose to not vote at all because of one issue, you’re a single issue voter. A single issue is deciding your vote.
As Rush once sang:
If you choose not to decide You still have made a choice
But if you would have also not voted because of issue Y or Z are also dealbreakers, then you’d be a multi-issue voter. If candidate A believes Y and Z, but not X, candidate B believed in X and Y, but not Z, and candidate C that believes in X and Z, but not Y, so you just didn’t vote, it would be clear its 3 different issues that you care about, but for each candidate, it would be a single issue why you aren’t voting for them. Would that just mean you are a single-issue voter for 3 different issues?
But if candidate A believes in Y and Z, candidate B believes in Z, and candidate C doesn’t believe in any of them in a particular election, in that case X alone would mean not voting for any of them.
OK, now a serious response.
What you are describing, to me, is how people should vote. It’s normal voting behavior. In realty, there are dozens of issues people care about to varying degrees, and you can assign values to each issue (how much it matters to you), add them up, and vote based on that.
My issue is that single-issue voters assign infinity to one issue and vote based on that, which is both usually lazy and stupid. There are cases where it’s reasonable, but they’re rare; if Trump supported Palestine and Biden supported the genocide (which tells you which side I’m on on that topic), then yeah; I think genocide is a reasonable single issue to make a decision. But in this case, Biden is pro-Israel, and Trump is pro-genocide (he’s said he thinks Israel isn’t going hard enough), so pro-Palestine voters should vote Biden.
Going back to your example: if two candidates do have the same position on issue X; and candidate A supports Y and Z; and candidate B doesn’t support Y or Z, then even if your single issue is X, you don’t just not vote. You have an opinion about Y and/or Z, so you vote for A or B based on that. And in your specific example, first: there is no candidate C in the US; there hasn’t been since Abraham Lincoln. Voting on the US is fucked up, and a vote for a third party is a wasted vote: not a protest vote, but a wasted vote, b/c C has zero chance of winning, and you’re taking your vote away from one of the other candidates, one of whom is more aligned - even if only slightly - with you values. Second, it would be unusual if you cared about X, Y, and Z equally, so one of those two candidates is going agree with you on one of those topics which is more important to you, and you should vote for them. Or - and this is the real situation in the US - two candidates are very similar about a half dozen issues, but widely differ about another dozen pretty important topics. And although that long tail of issues may not be your triggers, the weight of all those issues should make it clear which guy (and, so far, it’s always a guy) you prefer.
Biden and Trump agree on Palestine, although it’s clear Trump is the worse choice for Palestinians. They agree on big business. The differ about many other important topics:
- A woman’s right to choose
- Supporting Ukraine in its defense against the Russian invasion
- Universal healthcare
- Environmental protection
- Worker’s rights
- Nepotism in government
- The peaceful fucking transition between administrations
- Minority rights
- Whether black people are humans or not
- Whether women have the right to not be molested
and many other “lesser” topics. Saying that you aren’t going to vote because Biden is only less bad about Palestine is making a decision about a single issue, and it is a problem; it’s thoughtless, and lazy.
Yes, if you consider more than one issue (X, Y, Z) when deciding who or who not to vote for you are a multi issue voter, if you only consider a single issue (X) when deciding who or who not to vote for, you are a single issue voter. It’s not per candidate, it’s per vote.
Hold on… I need to whiteboard this.
And an idiot
While I do absolutely agree that single issue politics is a real thing like you showed, literally the only reply to your comment was “if you are a single issue voter, you’re an idiot”.
So I also think OP has a point here and we’re talking more about the people who use the term as an ad hominem attack, which I certainly have seen plenty of. And now Lemmy has provided us with yet another example of people taking something legitimate and turning it into a weakness/attackable offence. Like some trolls and racist people on the right now talk about DEI in negative terms
Fair points. I’m guilty of just saying “single issue voters,” without elaborating on every comment. That could easily be seen as an indirect ad-hominem attack. Maybe I should make a copy-pasta response for whenever I see someone arguing for single-issue decision making.
That said, there are justifiable single-issue decisions. If Trump was spouting rhetoric about shutting down all support of Israel, yeah. I can stand behind folks “switching sides” over this. Free Choice, ditto. 2A I have a harder time with, but that’s because there are usually so many other issues that you’d think are more important. Not my decision, but I have less sympathy for people who think being able to own a gun is more important than the ability to unionize.
Anyhoo, like I said: fair points.
yes, very much. i’ve been telling my partner it may be time to give up on Lemmy.
the ones that kill me are the long-form posts that seem to be making one point then pivot in the middle and get confusing. they’re just muddying the waters but people who don’t read past the first sentence or two upvote so they gain traction.
Gish gallop. It’s a common tactic used by authoritarians with no real arguments.
Nope, maybe try to find new communities?
Why wouldn’t I try to improve the ones I’m already in?
