By Zayatoon comics
Black book of communism nonsense.
I don’t really think Mao’s atrocities are disputed tbh.
Western media bubble
I don’t see why you’re so flustered, it wasn’t real communism…
Well, the workers didn’t own the means of production, they didn’t abolish currency, they didn’t do anything about class division, they didn’t abolish the state, they didn’t empower the working class, and they aren’t going to do any of these things later, but on the other hand, you clearly think mao was very trustworthy so surely you must just be taking his word for it.
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“land tilled by the peasantry was increasingly subject to government control, undoing many key principles of ownership as we shall see in the subsequent section ‘The Collectivisation of Agriculture.’”
So… the government took it. Making it a meaningless gesture. Communism is not when the government owns things.
Y’know it’s not hard to figure this stuff out. The government took everything in china. That doesn’t even take research, that’s basic knowledge.
Bold of you to call me “fucking stupid” when you didn’t even read your own source, not to mention that that’s ONE of the requirements, not all of them, and they didn’t even do that.
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You feel very comfortable calling everyone a fucking idiot, though. Do you know what rule #1 is?
The post can be a single image, an image gallery, or a link to a specific comic hosted on another site (the author’s website, for instance).
Not everyone is an idiot. You are.
Especially trying to accuse me of not reading the source when you skipped past to the very last paragraph to dishonestly quote out of context a line that even within itself betrays the fact that you’re being a dishonest piece of shit.
Congratulations, you’ve at best given 1 of the things that I listed… and tried to turn that into me being the idiot and not you. Except you didn’t because you know full well the chinese government owns that now. They didn’t give the land to the people, they pretended to briefly and then took it for themselves. Unlike you I have actually bothered to research these things: https://resourcehub.bakermckenzie.com/en/resources/global-corporate-real-estate-guide/asia-pacific/china/topics/real-estate-law
Who owns land in china? the chinese government. So, no, they did not even make an attempt.
You said they didn’t do anything about class division and being the debatelord idiot you are, you decided to ignore the fact as you read it that they abolished an entire landlord class so you could stay on course with your reply.
When the government takes everything is that solving class division in your mind, or is that just creating a new class that owns everything?
Now, what I want you to try to do, with your very useful and very large brain is compare the list of things that make communism, and compare the list of things that the chinese did, right, and notice that the chinese didn’t do any of them.
- Abolish class division < they created a new class, their own bourgeois, and took everything. This could ARGUABLY be an attempt… and it’s the best you’ve got.
- Abolish currency < not even attempted
- Abolish the state < not even attempted
- Give the workers the means of production < not even attempted
So, at best, they attempted one of the things… and didn’t do it.
And when I say you don’t need research for this, I’m saying that it’s common knowledge that the chinese government took anything… Even gradeschoolers know that.
Congratulations, you’ve at best given 1 of the things that I listed
Pretty fucking important thing
Is she in awe?
It’s the Ruth/DiMaggio dog joke from Looney Tunes.
I always think of Doug Benson’s version but this is one of the OGs
i like super daves version
Thanos (ah fuck, we’re being realistic)
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Capitalism
That’s a funny way of spelling religion.
At least religions give food to the hungry sometimes
Capitalism instead made food absurdly abundant and gave everyone air conditioned boxes.
Edit: to address all of the nonsense responses below all at once: China’s embrace of capitalism has lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty.
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Threw scarcity in the garbage? That seems like a good thing
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Capitalism didn’t give us shit. We had to trade 1/3 of our lives for that “abundance”. Don’t make money because you’re disabled? Doesn’t seem so abundant anymore. Also, growing food isn’t a byproduct of capitalism. The agricultural revolution began before capitalism existed. Imagine how much better your life would be if you didn’t parrot ruling class talking points. You aren’t ruling class so stop LARPing as a member of it.
What kind of delusional child brain would claim capitalism gives everyone homes.
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Who?
Capitalism
Smartest commie right there
Cats don’t care about political and economic ideologies… pay no attention to Egypt.
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Who
Capitalism
Goddamn you Mr. Capitalism
That’s not a “who”
It is I, Mr. Capitalism. Give me tax breaks and child labor.
Holy shit it’s the real John Capitalism!
It took way too long to get the dad joke here.
Gilbert Shelton - Fat Freddy’s Cat, 1973
This one’s actually funny
To be fair, many of those deaths were landlords, who dont count as humans.
That’s pretty fucked in the head, fam, even if these lists love blaming single communists but it when it comes time to talk about the death tolls of WW1 and 2 it’s always a shared responsibility and contextual.
What else would it be? I don’t see how one could blame WW1 on a single person. Though I would say most of WW2 could be blamed on a single person, if you really feel like it.
The sequel was completely inevitable. You could argue it was all because of one person, but that person appearing was basically predetermined.
I agree, but if you ignore all historical context, you could blame one person if you really wanted to, was what I meant.
The common narrative of WW1 is that it indeed was started by a single person. Gavrilo Princip assassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand which most people agree was the inciting incident that caused WW1.
Even high school history talks about how it was all building up to that event and the event alone wasn’t the cause
I think it would be quite reductive to just blame the assassin. Sure, he was the one that created the spark that ignited the conflict, but it had been brewing for years, and we can’t ignore the roles the heads of states were playing in starting the war.
And Mao personally executed 40 million people, huh? There wasn’t an entire ecosystem of officials fabricating reports at every level? His head of state security gets no credit for making everyone afraid to tell the truth?
Hell, the obnoxious thing about it is all it really does it blame the wrong single communist, people go on about the sparrows but Lysenkoism had destroyed crop yields before they got exterminated.
So, yes, it is as absurd to blame Mao entirely for The Great Leap Forward as it is to blame a Serbian assassin for WW1. There were cultural considerations, treaties, idiot officials, an agricultural policy built almost entirely on fraud, etc etc.
The most devastating thing about the Great Leap Forward is that the famine was entirely preventable if people weren’t afraid to tell the truth, and that simply isn’t a situation that can be built by one person.
Hell, there were good crops left to rot because the workers had left for the industrialization projects in the cities. Do you think Mao personally said “fuck that rice, go build some tractors?”
You can’t compare these two situations at all. Princip was not the head of a country.
Everything is contextual. Hell the plan the assassins had was exactly to provoke a war. They might not have thought it would get as big as it did, they just wanted a civil war for independence, but if intentions don’t matter, and they must not for this discussion because the intention of The Great Leap Forward wasn’t to starve people.
The funny thing with The Black Hand’s plan is, it worked. Serbia didn’t just get independence, it became the primary power of Yugoslavia when the Austro-Hungarian Empire was dissolved.
⬆️ your brain on dialectics
I get the joke but I still expected some tankies to show up. But then again, OP is on lemmy.world which is defederated with the tankie instances so that’s why
why is it defederated
Because of the tankies.
but why the tankies
But why male models?
While it has proven difficult to accurately estimate the pre-colonial population and the amount by which it changed under the Congo Free State, estimates for the Congolese population decline during Leopold’s rule range from 1 million to 15 million.
That’s a lot, but not even close to Mao
Noobish kdr. Max 10 millions deaths, somewhere between a French general during WWI (not counting German casualties) and minor paranoid dictators. Too much time larping as a psychopathic torturer, not enough time getting the job done. Mao killed several million people on a good mood, that’s professionalism.
That’s ridiculous, you can’t judge the genocidal madmen KDA on body count alone, Leopold simply did more evil with less resources than anyone ever!
Starting position matters, and Leopold came from behind to become one of the worsts.
Pretty sure the answer is “the brits”.
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Yep, anyone saying otherwise is doing mental gymnastics.
Or simply keeping with the theme of answers being a single individual and not an entire nation of hundreds of millions of people spanning centuries.
Fair enough to be honest. I hate Mao, Genghis Khan, Hitler and Stalin too for being genocidal fucks.
Is it Mr the brits or Mrs the brits?
Ohhhh, you’re conflating a single leader with an entire country.
You must be a lib, tankies say libs never argue in good faith, and your false equivalence is certainly in bad faith.
We were all pretty cool with it all at the time tbh.
Plenty of us will still defend it, which is crazy.
Until recently it was Mrs. Now it’s Mr or alternatively his majesty king Charles the 3rd.
Is there enough reliable data to give a kill count for the different monarchs? It would be kind of interesting who scores highest in that regard.
Exactly! Mao was one leader, England killed millions, sure, but that was spread over many many rulers.
Mao stands at the top afaik, I’d love to see some stats though!
Jesse what tf are you talking about
Mocking a tankie with tankie logic.
Hey, i hate the british too, but the article doesn’t directly blame the british for the famines and it also includes famines that took place in non-british held or administrated territories.
Nevertheless, it does point out that in many cases, british administration worsened the situation.
Nevertheless, it does point out that in many cases, british administration worsened the situation.
To be fair… They were only practising for how they’d treat modern Britain.
It also just one territory, I’m sure the Irish also have a few bones to pick.
Though speaking of time advantage, the best answer might be “mosquitos”, and while “blood sucking insects” could be a name for british colonists, they didn’t spread malaria since the dawn of humanity
Nice shoehorn of anglo-saxon history, but those famines are all plagues and crop faliures for the most part.
They forced farmers to grow indigo crops instead of natural cotton/wheat/rice.
Im pretty sure that was not during the drought itself, nor really caused it. It economically made sense and then probably exacerbated the famine.
It wasn’t just the drought. Indigo cropping destroyed the soil first, drought exacerbated the problems.
Why is it the rich never starve if it’s just a totally unaccountable natural disaster?
Because they have money duuh.
So it’s less of a natural disaster and more of an economic disaster? I wonder why people would blame governments for that…
It is like miles away from the intentional economical engineering we are talking about. Still not sure why you are so bent on trying to wiggle them into a comparsion between regimes and personnel more direct, intentional and immediate like Mao or Stalin.
If you dont distinguish from those, then why even have a debate on them?
The joke implied that the question intended to ask one or very few directly involved personnel and you disregarded that. Thats it.
Right sure, when the British intentionally abuse Ireland and India it’s really just a whoopsie-daisy.
Should I really do the same kind of jumping to conclusions?
Are you saying that the largest completely man made famine ever does not really deserve that much of a recognition?
Rich usually have more resources and ability to purchase them at elevated prices. Hope that helps
The rich and the party cadres
All famines are crop failures. That’s kinda how famines happen.
No
A famine is a widespread scarcity of food,[1][2] caused by several factors including war, natural disasters, crop failure, widespread poverty, an economic catastrophe or government policies.
I suppose you can consider getting your crops blown up a crop failure
In fairness we’ve been around a lot longer, but it is impressive how one little island nation has managed to fuck so much shit up from afar.
I think that Queen Victoria would rank pretty in the body count scoreboard
Can hardly blame them, pestilence and diseases are a genuine concern for any empire where armed forces have to move far distances over land or sea
Can definitely blame them… Several of the famines in their ‘empire’ were either engineered, caused through incompetence or arrogance, or ignored when preventable.
Ref: Any of bengal’s several famines under British rule, frankly even after once you take Churchill into account.
Cats cant pronounce that tough, so it has to count all of those in a socialist’s name.
In other news have you seen the latest royal wedding? So beautiful and glamorous, makes me feel blessed to have monarchs ruling over us!
I like when the prince ripped off the princess’s arm and shoved it into her ass.
A beautiful day for Canada and therefore the world.
Mosquitoes, thanks to Malaria. Estimated kill count (according to a Nature article from 2002) 50-60 Billion people.
More a person responsible kinda thing. I think Mao does top it but due to starvation thanks to his idiot policies that ruined crops
Wow. You’re really gonna just blame a whole race over a few billion deaths?
/s please don’t hang me in these streets
It’s a pun too, that’s a good one 🤣
I thought the cat turned into one of them (sorry to confirm Godwins law once again). http://www.catsthatlooklikehitler.com/cgi-bin/seigbest.pl
Trofim Lysenko Estimated body count 70 million
The vast majority of deaths under communism have been because of famine…
…which may well be true for Capitalism as well.
True but i dont know of one guy who did 70 mil worth under capitalism
You can probably get a few if you stop and make the maths, specially when abusing developing countries.
Well if you count percent oof population per year then pol pot the dictator of Cambodia would have the highest
