Based, I cannot stand the lemmygrad, enjoy the echo chamber tankies.
So wait, are they saying they do consider the USSR communist and that being a positive representation of communism?
Oh wait, I forgot, they deny the Holodomor happened, since it happened to the common worker and tankies don’t care about them.
we are one of the tamest instances when it comes to banning people and deleting comments/posts.
Uh huh.
Bet you don’t even know where the [word] totalitarian comes from or who coined it without looking it up.
Adolf literally Hitler could’ve coined the term, and that wouldn’t change a goddamn thing for how it is used to accurately condemn a genocidal dictatorship. Do you… do you think projection decides what’s real? Like if someone’s the first person to make an accusation, any form of “no you” is false?
we retain our perfect track record of not blocking real instances
Well yeah, your stated agenda is to shit up other conversations. You’re part of a harassment campaign echo-chamber halfway down the gradient from lemmy.ml’s erudite atrocity apologia to hexbear’s openly enforced tankie hugbox.
we don’t ban good-faith posters.
What a crock. I was banned for having a discussion about how the “russia is de-nazifying Ukraine” is swallowing Russian propaganda hook, line, and sinker. White supremacy is a problem everywhere, but to use it as an excuse for what’s happening is a lie.
Ban.
They have no idea what projection is. To them it’s just a word you use to describe people with opinions you don’t like.
Totally sane. I like the part where even they realize they will eventually be defederated by everyone. 😂
Another day, another L.
Why do all the crazy people think debates fix things?
When your entire strategy in an argument is to be disingenuous and dishonest as all hell, you ALWAYS feel like you win the arguments.
It can trick a person into thinking they are a good debater.
The nature of bad faith is that there is no right answer.
In other words, it’s easy to win a debate when you were only aiming to convince yourself.
Theyre insecure about their intelligence and theyre posturing.
Because eventually the sane people stop talking to them. And that means they forfeit the debate and the crazy person wins it be default.
Ahh yes, the Eric Cartman strategy.
Palestine will be free a month from now
Really?
Yeah, like that Family Guy bit. Bibi saw signs reading “Free Palestine” and said, “Sold.”
Of course. As soon as Putin finally gets the position as Speaker of the House he’ll advance a bill that switches the US from capitalism to communism, which will go so well that the EU follows suit within days. This is about one week from now.
Then the unprecedented collaboration of the world having shrugged off the yoke of capitalism will solve nuclear fusion gaining total energy independence. That’s going to be about two more weeks give or take a few days.
Oh, and all Christians will have given up their religion for atheism of course in the interim, so middle east policy based on Revelations goes out the window.
At that point the US and EU will withdraw their support for Israel and instead give their support to Palestine, no longer having any reasons to need a strategic ally in the region.
The paperwork and inevitable killing of Israelis may take about another week after that, but with a bit of luck in the scheduling, it will be wrapped up a month from now.
Mark his words.
Who’s Mark? And why does he have words?
Yes comrade, and the month after that Putin, having completely taken over Ukraine somehow and then inevitably sent its whole population on a one-way trip to Siberia, will use his icebreaker fleet and what’s left of his navy to liberate Alaska’s 5 ethnic Russians, immediately decimating our they/them army before they even get there by simply being straight so that within mere hours they secure the entire state and, after inevitably wiping out the native Alaskans and all of Anchorage’s gays, hold a free and fair referendum where 109% of the remaining population votes to form the Alyeska People’s Republic. Then they’ll somehow sneak past the narrow and well-guarded Puget Sound without getting hit by missiles from a mountain or running aground in the fog and then create the Sietl People’s Republic (all without having their cheap uniforms soaked in the rain and dying of pneumonia), gobbling up all those tech and airplane manufacturing secrets (so we can finally see actual innovation without capitalistic monopolies yay!) and going on yet another homophobic killing spree, this time spanning several cities. The PNW shall be free from capitalistic US tyranny!!!1
Meanwhile, China will claim that since Hawaiians are descended from Taiwanese aborigines, it historically owns Hawaii; the american-mainland-hating locals will defs be on board with another continental imperialist stealing their land and turning it into a state-sized tourist resort again- this time peppered with a few boarding schools and sterilizations. It will be the beginning of the end for the American Empire™, I can’t wait!
/s
Downvoted for the /s
This is great, thank you
How’s that going huh lol
Mark those words!!!
🙄🙄🙄🙄
I stopped reading at that point. While I would love for that to be true, it’s absolutely batshit to think it will happen.
Yeah, in a month I’m going to be staring absently at indescribable numbers of Palestinian casualties, feeling blessed to lie a country so far from such a situation, and feeling cursed for living in a world that allows it.
Thanks for this. I’m brand new to Lemmy in general. So I saw the notice they were cut off but wasn’t sure if I ended up on the correct side of the divide.
I did. I very much did.
I mean… pretty expected. Funny how so many seems to think Palestine = Gaza.
Yes, Gaza is part of Palestine. But there is more to palestine than just Gaza. Israel is not at war with Palestine (officially). They’re at war with Hamas. Which have been governing Gaza kind of like a city state for quite some time now.
Also, regardless of what you think about the situation. I think you’d have to be pretty optimistic, if you don’t think this will end with Gaza being reduced to rubble.
I’m optimistic only 95% of gaza will be reduced to rubble myself.
I recommend you make an account on a third-party instance that federates with us, like ml or ee until they also defederate from us because we have principles
But .ml is literally the “Marxist-Lenininst” instance, why do they automatically expect conflicts with them as well? Some of these people have a persecution complex.
Communists historically are the primary cause of death of communists.
Well, tankies are pretty good at eating their own, even when they agree on 99% of stuff.
Also, tankies don’t know Marx from their own asshole, if they had any damn sense they’d be able to tell that the USSR wasn’t communist because it never moved past the ‘dictatorship of the proletariat’ phase if it can be said to have even started in the first place. Stalin took over and never had any intention of letting that happen, Khrushchev did in fairness try to fix some of the damage done which makes some sense because he actually fought in the Russian Civil War as a Bolshevik, but Brezhnev killed all that
How about because they’re not actually particularly Marxist-Leninist, but simply red flavored fascists and everyone with two neurons to rub together can see that?
Not to no true scotsman this shit, but does anyone self-identify as “Leninist” who isn’t a Stalinist?
Marxist is a pretty tame word, all things considered. Marxism is a pretty broad tent that fits a lot of people. But I don’t think I have ever interacted with a self-described “Leninist” that wasn’t authoritarian and against civil rights. This coming from a guy who regularly quotes Lenin.
Indeed. Leninism as something separate to Marxism comes from Stalin’s “The Foundations of Leninism” in 1924. He wasted no time after Lenin died to coopt Lenins already flawed adaptations for his own needs. There is no “Leninism” separate from Stalin.
As a Marxist, and someone who have considered myself a communist (though I rarely use the term now mostly because it results in tedious discussions about exactly by what definition; a more precise term would be libertarian Marxist), I’ve stood face to face with “Marxist-Leninists” who told me that if they were in charge I’d be sent to a labor camp because I supported democracy.
To me they’re as much of a threat and as much of an enemy to me as any fascist.
“Democratic” centralism was a very dangerous mistake, and the notion of a vanguard party likewise, because they combine to make a party far too easy to capture by people who think they know best, and so can do away with the corrective input of other people, and that attracts exactly the same type of people who are attracted to fascism. There may be distinctions in who exactly they want to lock up and what they want to outlaw, but there are significant overlaps there too.
100% It’s such a tragic and fucked up thing that the words have been so corrupted and co-opted. Can’t identify as communist due to McCarthy-ist propaganda in the West and the corruption of Lenin and Stalin still clinging heavily to the term to this day. And for many the same reasons can’t even claim to be libertarian without having to explain topeople that you aren’t just selfish capitalists. Due to all the Twisted Rothbard propaganda. And Marx / Marxism which hasn’t done anything wrong has just been beaten into the ground with misinformation.
It’s so tedious to have to try to educate every single person you talk to. So much easier unfortunately to just use more vague or abstract terms. Though honestly I think there is a lot of value in identifying with and differentiating the terms. And trying to take them back. I for one don’t think I would have come to the realization I have today had people not done it to me.
You are spot on that leninists/stalinists are nobody’s friend though. Just like all authoritarians they’ll turn on themselves even eventually. And Leninism is one term there is no rehabilitation for.
I kinda like reclaiming the term libertarian, though, because it really fucks with the heads of US right-wing libertarians to quote Joseph Dejacque to them with his agreement with Proudhon’s “property is theft”.
I’ve taken to seeing my goals as not to convince the people I talk to, but to convince “passers-by”. That is far more satisfying because it takes far less effort. You get far just by showing patience and letting the other person stumble in their own words and reach for the insults. Just earlier today someone got a ban for going off the rails and supporting Pinochet in that thread about CIA admitting their mistakes in Iran - he convinced nobody, and ended up contributing to making himself look like a crazed bloodthirsty psychopath. If I’d hoped to “win” that argument, I’d have despaired, but as a beacon illustrating the immorality of coopting democracy “preventatively” out of unsupported fears it was glorious.
With respect to the tankies, my biggest concern is the number of people who just aren’t paying that close attention. There are lots of nice quotes even from Stalin in isolation. When people treat tankies as if they’re just a bit misguided but still part of the same broad movement, they provide fertile ground for these people to peddle their shit that way, and get legitimised by proximity. To me that is the biggest risk the pose - their access to left-wing spaces must be fought, because the moment they’re on the outside their recruitment is far harder.
That would definitely be a good way to make the heads of those who unironically claim that taxation is theft explode. Though I’m much more a fan of phrasing it as private property. It’s a little more constructive and concise. Even those that are being disingenuous would generally reflexively ask what other kind there is. Besides public property of course. Which is an excellent opportunity to explain concepts like personal property. Whether or not they’ll be listening. Because others might.
I think it’s dangerous to assume/conflate passion with childishness/name calling. For instance the word tankie. Yes some of them have unironically embraced it. But generally it is just name calling as well. Granted many will whine that you’re calling them names. Even when you’re just labeling then as what their words and actions show then to be. Not all names are created equal. Which is why I stick mostly to calling them Leninist/Stalinist/Maoist etc. Which ever is more applicable. Because it’s what they clearly are and espouse. Most of them don’t own a tank however. And the average person wouldn’t understand the reference.🤷 That said, if name calling is the only thing someone had to offer. Yeah fuck that.
I tend to stick to what people call themselves when talking to them, but the term “tankie” is broad, and sometimes I don’t feel like listing every variation. I don’t think it’s connotations are much worse than those of the names of their various ideologies.
So hilarious that their concept of education seems to include highschools and independent research. That’s it.
I guess if you coast through hichschool to the point that you come away thinking “They didn’t teach me anything!”, independent research would be the highest form of education possible. You’d also probably be a huge narcissist, but that’s a different, stickier wicket entirely.
To be fair many people do come out of high school thinking they know “the truth” about the world. They really don’t, and it will require individual research (whether that’s while working on your PhD on Russian history or something else) to learn everything there is to know. There’s always more to learn, and many educational things purposefully leave out context or misconstrue information.
That said, anyone talking about the USSR in the modern day is fucking stupid. This person seems to not realize the USSR doesn’t exist anymore. I surely don’t trust their opinion on the subject.
Delusional. Lemmy is better off without them or hexbear.
Watch out guys, he’s read things.
They love that tactic and treating it like it means something. Like a libertarian claiming to be experts in capitalism because they’ve read every work of fiction Ayn Rand ever published. And I’m like, it’s great you read and all bro. But do you understand. And inevitability they don’t.
Or they have read things but cannot place it in context eg The Communist Manifesto was a response to problems Marx and Engles saw in capitalism whereas Smith was responding to issues with mercantilism.
Well that and of the ultimate problem when it comes to things of sociology and economics. No matter how many books you’ve read or by who. Having read and commit those books to heart. Means you know nothing more than what the people in those books say. Whether or not we agree with what they say or hold it true. It doesn’t make it true or valuable in itself.
That most ideologies no matter how rational or logical they seem. Are often impractical due to the assumption of rationality and logical thinking.
Your post makes it seem like you think sociology and economics aren’t sciences. Economics in Marx’s time was certainly closer to philosophy but that hasn’t been the case since the 1960s.
The problem the Marxists who are not formally educated in philosophy or science face is that they don’t realize economics in the modern age isn’t concerned with the kinds of thinking Marx engaged in because it isn’t based on empiricism.
They aren’t. Not in the same sense of physics and chemistry for sure. That doesn’t mean that they are without value. It just means that they have no authority to predict anything. Empiricism and determinism are sort of the core of science. If you mix a set proportion of materials at a specific temperature you will always get the same products. An authoritarian a leninist and a Communist walk into a bar. And you’ll get as many different punchlines as there are people who attempt to answer it.
Nothing changed in 1960. Economics is still largely philosophy. With the hindsight those sort of things give we can often try to understand why things might have happened. Maybe even offer insight into something like it perhaps happening again. But certainly not predict it happening. One of the best indicators that economics is largely philosophy. Is the fact that for these last 50 years conservative in the United States to have babbled on incoherently about bullshit supply side economics.
Oh, so you’re one of those. You don’t know anything about modern economics or philosophy if you think the two are even remotely similar.
Seriously a question in modern economics would be “did the tax policy instituted by placeistan in 2008 positively or negatively impact school enrollment?” While a question in philosophy would be “is the tax policy instituted by Placeistan an ethical or nonethical policy?” Those aren’t the same and the only reason why you would think the subjects are similar is if you know nothing about either one.
Im willing to be you know little about what constitutes a science based on the ignorance you have displayed so far.
Prestidigitation is not part of science and it is weird that you think the inability to predict everything is somehow unique to social sciences.
Oh, so you’re one of those. Getting all pissy, unable to address what was said. Instead making accusations and strawmen.
Your example is just silly. That’s just asking someone to make an observation and personal interpretation. How would you justify that interpretation. How would you test that hypothesis? Is it repeatable? Wheres your control group. Economics fails/doesn’t adhere to basic scientific method. And isn’t SCIENCE. No disrespect econ major. It isn’t. It’s a social science. That’s a significant difference. Saying economics is a Science. Full stop. Is like saying your hatchback is a formula 1. Though if you can prove otherwise I’m willing to listen despite your rudeness
You can read as much Ayn Rand as you want with perfect understanding and you’re not really going to learn anything.
He knows the origin of the word “totalitarian” without looking it up. Because memorization is obviously the cornerstone of critical thinking
I learned where it came from in high school. Is that checkmate?
unfortunately not since everything taught in high school is a lie. the only way to learn things is to read things after graduating (as long as they aren’t written by high school teachers or any other educated person)
I love that pointing out that a fascist invented it is somehow a gotcha
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