Israel is a state
Judaism is a religionIf one disagrees or opposes one, they don’t oppose the other. I know that Israel has managed to spin the narrative that Israel and Judaism are the same and everyone opposing the state is basically the same kind of hateful asshole Adolf was, but that’s just not true. We here in Germany have struggled a long time with that for obvious reasons. You couldn’t call out Israel for doing wrong shit without being called a Nazi. In that past that is. What you’ve seen isn’t “Antisemitism”. It’s opposition to some of the bullshit Israel is pulling that is the very same kind of bullshit Jews have been subjected to in the past. Or tell me: What’s the difference between a Ghetto in 1700s Germany and the Gaza Strip? Correct, the 1700s Ghetto had less travel restrictions.
There is a great push in Israel to be proud of the history of unjust oppression and prosecution Jews have suffered for centuries and how awful being a victim of that was. There is this sense that together, as a nation, they finally have the means to safeguard themselves against shit like that. Yet, that very same nation pulls a swift 180 when it comes to palestinians. Pushing them back into Ghettos, depriving them of any form of economical way out, depriving them of means to get their own electricity, their own water. Paying them pittances for their jobs, restricting travel for them whenever possible. Now, as soon as those people act hostile (go figure), the “state of the oppressed” Israel responds with the military. “A little bombardment will keep them in check, right? How dare they hate us?!”
If the message all the Shoa museums, all the graveyards for the people killed in atrocities was really understood, neither the “West Bank” nor the “Gaza Strip” could exist without Israelites acting up against them.
Rant over.
So you say that you oppose Israel’s existence itself - the existence as a state, but do not hate Jews in particular, right?
Username checks out.
I know you would love it @rah 😘
Do you support the existence of an apartheid state? Yes or no answer only.
Try your derailing somewhere else.
Where did the poster say that?
We all know that I didn’t. But they need that for some sort of strawman argument, methinks.
Nah you’re just mad because you’re losing the information war.
People started finding out what’s happening in Gaza, and that’s not good news for you.
Please tell me more about the information war you’re fighting
The Hamas Social Media Teams (no, they do not reside in Gaza) are working 24/7 to give every bit of news the right spin - especially in Arab countries but also in the rest of the world. To control the news and narrative is the most important part of any terrorist attack. Their social media strategy is very well developed and is the still continuing part of the Hamas Terror Attack.
- they want to portray Israel as a whole as some kind of monstrous entity
- they celebrate all the murders they have committed with their peer groups
- they spread the murder and rape videos also outside their peer groups, plainly to cause terror
- they use their social media activities for fundraising
Do you have any supporting evidence for this?
“If you can’t eliminate injustice, at least tell everyone about it.”
Lemmy.world go 30 minutes without making things up about other instances challenge.
Difficulty: impossible.
Whiniest instance by far. I get the hate for hexbear and grad, but ml is normal
OP isn’t from .world but ok
But they posted to it
ML banned my .ml account for saying that soldiers in the US revolution didn’t murder families and children. They are full mask off
Which is ironic because Lenin said that Washington was a Chad for overthrowing the monarchy.
If there’s one thing Lenin would have understood, it’s that you can’t control everything your revolution does.
I mean objectively some probably did. One of the major provisions of the treaty of Paris was the protection of folks who were loyalists from retaliations, and the nascent US’ inability to actually keep their end of that term is basically the starting point of Canada post revolution.
What qualifies that is that several revolutionary leaders majorly disincentivized that behavior, Washington in particular famously forced his soldiers to compensate nearby townsfolk for anything they needed to take, even during the stay at Valley Forge where they were basically starving to such an extreme that Washington brought Vaccine science to the US military because otherwise the sheer starvation they were going through was liable to leave them all especially exposed to disease.
I think it’s just the biggest and most accessible, so you’re obviously going to see the most of this kind of whiney shit posting.
TFW the flagship instance isn’t the largest because the creators drove people off with weird political views.
Which ones the flagship instance?
I assume that it’s lemmy.ml
i think lemmy.world is the biggest now
Why do you keep making up lies?
If by flagship instance you mean .ml, they drove people off because of the Reddit migration. They couldn’t afford to upgrade their infrastructure, so they told people to register in other instances.
Lol ml is filled with far left morons it is not even funny.
Rightwingers aren’t people. Also, Rengoku would never support your political position.
Ouch far left detected. Subhuman.
You guys are very far from normal, about half your “memes” are just communist whingeing thinly veiled as humour.
Just remember if someone steal your lawn you get to wholesale murder them and their offspring forever with 0 repercussions.
And if someone asks a moral question of you, disengage by calling them a zionist. Don’t forget to spend your whole day posting inflammatory propaganda and getting butthurt over fantasy-conversations you had with yourself.
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Where? Lemmy.ml usually cracks down on racists pretty hard report them when you see them
Not my experience. If you’re talking about Israel a lot of people are getting really fast really mad. If you try to talk rational about other states people stay mostly calm. I would call this behaviour a double-standard because of antisemitism. There’s no rational reason why people focus so much about this little state.
Hahahaha. Lol.
They’re rabidly pro Palestine/Hamas over there.
Alright, but antisemitic?
They call it anti-zonist.
Mostly, they just downplay every horrible thing Hamas does, and make a huge deal out of every bad thing Israel does.
It’s actually pretty huge deal all thing considered.
It is, but then Hamas actually launched an operation whose entire goal was to slaughter civilians. Kinda hard to feel any sympathy for them after that.
What do you think the bombing campaign has been? Only 10x more effective.
Dumb takes from a .ml account, what a surprise.
Imagine support genocide
I’m supporting nobody.
Ah yes, targeting civilians, Israel would never do that,
They at least have the decency to pretend it was an accident.
Yeah, it was just a little genocide guys, what’s the big deal
Israel can have a little genocide, as a treat
Could really use some citations of .ml being anti semitic
Why is everyone in the comments section oversimplifying this complex issue? Great reminder that that’s what politics is now, blaming one side and naming the other side pure.
There’s no such thing as nuance any more. If you accept that nuance exists then you might have to accept that
[acceptable opinion]might be wrong, and it might be wrong a lot.I…I don’t think that’s a “now” thing, unfortunately.
It’s ramped up pretty considerably lately.
You make a good point actually.
I am pro-skub.
HOW DARE YOU! I am anti-skub.
Cash me ousside howboudah
Me looking at all the genocide denying ethnostate apologists on lemmy 😥
Blocking hexbear helps.
And Lemmygrad AND Lemmy.ml
Eh? Those guys are all in on Palestine.
National and racial chauvinism is a vestige of the misanthropic customs characteristic of the period of cannibalism. Anti-semitism, as an extreme form of racial chauvinism, is the most dangerous vestige of cannibalism.
Anti-semitism is of advantage to the exploiters as a lightning conductor that deflects the blows aimed by the working people at capitalism. Anti-semitism is dangerous for the working people as being a false path that leads them off the right road and lands them in the jungle. Hence Communists, as consistent internationalists, cannot but be irreconcilable, sworn enemies of anti-semitism.
In the U.S.S.R. anti-semitism is punishable with the utmost severity of the law as a phenomenon deeply hostile to the Soviet system. Under U.S.S.R. law active anti-semites are liable to the death penalty.
J. Stalin
January 12, 1931He probably didn’t read “On the Jewish Question” from K. Marx.
was karl drunk when they wrote that? it seems so contradictory to the modern understanding of marxism
Antisemitism ≠ antizionism, lemmy.ml (speaking from experience) has waaaaay harsher and stricter moderation that something like ee or world, they straight up hard-remove words from comments, an antisemite would be banned on sight.
Unless they painted their antisemitism in a thin veneer of
fetishizingsupporting PalestiniansMost Palestinians are semites as well.
Antisemitism is specifically discrimination against jews, not against all semitic peoples…
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Yeah where the fuck is the antisemitism? Fuckin dogshit takes that think one side is clean where the other isnt? Yeah, plenty of that. But antisemitism itself? I havent seen it
I am seeing some of it tbh. Antisemite shitbirds who think just because a lot of folks are (rightfully) mad at Israel, that they can sneak in their heinous philosophy. Go muddy some other waters with that bullshit, is what I say.
Agreed, Isreal is doing problematic shit, that says nothing about Jewish people in general. Antisemites can eat shit
I am not antisemitic. I just hate everyone whos involved in a war
Criticizing. Israel. Is. Not. Anti-semitism.
Is criticizing Saudi Arabia “Islamophobia”?
I agree…It’s a tense situation but words have meaning. Anti-Netanyahu does not mean Antisemitism.
Apparently criticising Ukraine is unacceptable though
Oh, do you talk a lot about their corruption scandals?
I know nothing about anything bad Ukraine has done, I don’t follow the war as much as I used to. I just see a lot of downvotes on anything critical of Ukraine
You need to be more specific. There are some valid criticism that can be pointed at Ukraine, but if the criticism is along the lines of “Nazi Ukraine” then that’s just perpetuating Russian propaganda and should be downvoted. Most of the criticism of Ukraine I’ve seen falls squarely in the Russian propaganda camp.
While they’re waging a war against the country that’s known for its troll factories[0] and long traditions in information warfare, just downmodding all negativity against Ukraine is sort of a safe bet.
You might want to note that for things that matter, like corruption that blocks actual EU membership, the negativity still exists and is legit.
[0] https://www.amazon.com/Putins-Trolls-Frontlines-Russias-Information/dp/1632461293
Probably because all criticism seems to come from people with a clear and contemptible agenda, even when it’s true, and it often isn’t.
There’s plenty of room for critical support but the critics mostly just seem to be cheering for the invasion. Probably because all the fair criticism revolves around the fact that war is hell.
I wouldn’t say all criticism is from people with contemptible adgenda. That’s a hyperbolic statement, it could be received like that by the reader but it’s prejudiced for people who try to remain as fair as possible.
The war is a complete shitfest for all humans involved it’s awful thing its endured all this time but unfortunately as a comfortable westerner, I think it’s the right thing for ukraine right now to stand up for their rights.
My point is UK and US have done some unspeakable things but history is written by the winners and we’re not taught about the atrocities our allies have done in previous wars. As a brit Dresden springs to mind and I wonder if Ukraine will have any similar controversies spring up after the war. We fucking killed 25,000 people with basically no justification.
With risk of sounding like a dick I’m going to ask you a question (sorry my directness can come across as being rude) Does my comment make me a person who has a “clear and contemptible adgenda” to you? I know I’ll get downvoted by others but I’m more interested in your opinion
Putin’s propaganda wants russians to belive that criticizing Putin is rusophobia. This post looks exactly like Putin’s propaganda.
I hate Russia though, I’m proud of that
Then kiss with Putin, he hates Russia too
This comment thread is an absolute fucking joke. You’re all dumb as absolute fuck.
Both sides of this conflict are pieces of shit. There is no side “to blame.” This conflict has been going on for about 100 years and both sides have committed human rights violation and heinous acts of violence.
If you actually want to blame someone, blame the fucking British and the Americans for manipulating both the zionists and the Palestinians to help win the world wars, and for promising them both the same land.
You’re all wasting your time trying to to blame Israel or Palestine. Don’t be so fucking lazy people. Read a god damn history book rather than basing your opinions on social media. Jesus…
blame the fucking British and the Americans
None of the ones who made those decisions are alive anymore. Are you going to dig up their coffins and shout at the corpses?
You make some good points though. However, we can absolutely blame actors at play today for things that are happening today. Hamas committed atrocities, now Israel is going in heavy handed and exacerbating the situation. Not sure why people find it difficult to state that. Hatred, I assume.
Israel kept them in a concentration camp for years… was that not an atrocity?
no no, you see, Only things done TO Israel are atrocities and bad.
Palestinians just need to accept, with quiet dignity, the human rights violations, war crimes, and genocides and never raise a single finger in anger over the human rights violations and warcrimes they are subjected to.
/s
could you stop with this antisemitic bullshit? the people in Gaza aren’t humans, so why tarnish the good name of Israel (that represents all the Jews in the world btw) /s
yes apparently not wanting to genocide Gaza is antisemitic due to shitty American foreign policy propaganda
Israel has been boxing in the Palestinians for those 100 years, slowly choking them out and forcibly removing them from their homes. Now, multiple generations later, millions of Palestinians are backed into a small corner of their ancestral land as they are still forcibly removed from their homes and murdered in the streets. This is a genocide… like it has been for the last 100 years. Israelis are the invading force. Why wouldn’t the Palestinians fight back? Innocent people died, but that doesn’t give the Zionists the all clear to commit genocide and ethnic cleansing.
That’s a neat trick considering Israel is only 75 years old.
They used the 100 years figure from OP
Sit on my face.
Guilty Killing civilians: Hamas, Israeli government.
Guilty of Genocide: Israeli government
People who don’t deserve to get killed: Palestine civilians, Israeli civilians.
People who have claims to the land: both Palestine civilians and Israeli civilians (sorry the situation is fucked).
Fascist and helping each other gain power: Hamas, Netanyahu
Why are the attacks from Israel considered genocidal, but not those from Palestine?
Not effective enough, I’m guessing
because Hamas hasn’t cut off water to some 2 million people? like, positions of power mean you will end up actually qualifying for things like “committing genocide” much sooner
So Hamas who want to commit genocide but fail at it are not genocidal. But Israel which could easily commit genocide but doesn’t do it is genocidal?
Look up the definition. Israel is currently commiting genocide. Not denying that hamas didn’t want to, but they aren’t in a position to do so and never will be.
Definition of genocide:
the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
The aim of Israel isn’t to destroy Palestine or kill all Palestinians. They definitely want to destroy Hamas, maybe they want to take over Gaza. While their tactics are inhumane and kill many Palestinians, I don’t see how you could argue their real goal is to kill Palestinian as an ethnicity. Abou 20 % of the citizens in Israel are Palestinian. And they also do not attack the Westbank.
who said Israel doesn’t commit genocide? just by numbers, if Hamas had committed genocide Israel would have done so 10 times sooner
Genocide isn’t about numbers though. A genocide means your goal is to kill everyone from a certain ethnicity. With currently 20 % of citizens in Israel being Palestinian and no attacks on the Westbank I can’t see how you would argue the goal and reason for the war is that Israel wants to kill everyone with Palestinian ethnicity?
West bank settlers are currently just shooting Palestinians while being protected by the government, and no, you actually need to be able to kill the people to call it genocide,
Guilty of Genocide: Israeli government
I don’t think it’s because of lack of will or lack of trying from the Arab side
So to be clear, what are you saying? Are you saying the genocide is justified?
I would like to see the logic you used to come to that conclusion from my comment
Gladly, thanks for asking. So I started out with my general assumption that genocide is always bad. I figured most people agree with that.
Then I looked at your reply and I was like this person is listing some reasons why the Israeli government is genocideing civilians and I noticed that you lumped Palestinian civilians and Hamas into one group “Arabs”. And I thought that was interesting because Arabs is a pretty large group that includes people who are unrelated to the current conflict. I also noticed that you left out one of the major reasons for the genocide which is racism. I’m sure you just forgot to list that as I think it is one of the larger reasons for doing the genocide.
Then I was trying to figure out what your comment was adding to the thread. Were you just unsure if we were aware that Hamas had killed Israeli civilians? No, my original post specified that they did.
So I was very confused as to why you made your post in the first place.
Then I remembered that some people online like the genocideing of Palestine civilians. Some people want it to keep going and for that to happen they need to make the genocide sound justified. They may do this by posting something very similar to what you posted.
Now, I don’t know why you made your post, so I asked. I also wanted clarification if you thought the genocide was justified because it seems like something a pro-genocide person might post.
Now that I have written out my process, can I please get you to confirm that you think the genocide of the Palestinian civilians is bad.
It was about nutty as I expected.
I was talking about Arab attempts to drive Jews “to the sea” and remove them from the area completely. You might’ve seen some of these calls and heard of some of these attempts. If not, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab–Israeli_conflict
I’m surprised someone would take that as a pro genocide stance, but it did take some advanced logic for sure.
Now, I don’t know why you made your post, so I asked. I also wanted clarification if you thought the genocide was justified because it seems like something a pro-genocide person might post.
Now that I have written out my process, can I please get you to confirm that you think the genocide of the Palestinian civilians is bad.
I’m somewhat surprised my previous reply where I made fun of you for jumping to that very assumption didn’t already clarify how you were wrong. Then again, using sarcasm with someone who clearly misunderstands stuff might have been a bad move. lol
Alright, so I was wrong and a big dumb dumb.
Clearly it should be extremely easy for you to say that the genocide of Palestinian civilians is bad as you were not trying to justify it. But you haven’t said it yet. It’s been like 2 replies. I get it, it can be hard to keep track of everything in that big brain of yours.
So here it is. I have rolled out the red carpet. I’ve taken the big L. All that is left is for you reply with “the genocide of Palestinian civilians is bad”. Heck you can even copy it from this reply and post it.
It’s a conflict older than one of the religions involved. Its crazy how people think they cam blame one side only
I feel like we’re blaming the side that is blaming a side, and there is a lot of blame going around.
Or at least that’s what I did and am trying to avoid doing again.
Lol blame the british
The conflict is 3000 years old. There is no blaming anyone.
based.
Anti Zionism ≠ Anti Semitism.
Some people wants every body human rights to be respected, and dennounce crimes against humanity that Israel and Hamas commits, one being an alleged country and the other a terrorist organization.
The right for self determination of Palestinians (and to live) is not being respected by Israel, so, with confidence I will say Free Palestine!
What’s funny is that Palestinians are literally Semitic
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ay man shut up lmfao
I think your tone is why you are getting down voted. You actually come off as the neckbeard with permanent Cheeto cheese stains on their fingers and half chewed food flying out of your mouth as you type.
The term antisemitism was created in Germany as a scientific sounding name for Judenhass(Jew Hatred).
Even though the root of Semite means people of the Semitic language group the usage of antisemitism has always been towards the Jews alone.
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Dumbass comment. Thanks!
So tell me what „Anti-Zionism“ means exactly in your opinion.
Anti-Zionism Opposition to Jewish ethnonationalism
Anti-Zionism is opposition to Zionism. Although anti-Zionism is a heterogeneous phenomenon, all its proponents agree that the creation of the modern State of Israel, and the movement to create a sovereign Jewish state in the region of Palestine – the biblical Land of Israel – was flawed or unjust in some way.
- wikipedia
Zionism became a thing when antisemitism was really bad.
Israel became a thing when antisemitism went over itself and even casual antisemites looked in horror at what Nazis had done.
The Palestinian problem today is nested within centuries of the problem of antisemitism, coiling around and biting itself in the tail.
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Very few people are arguing for Hamas. Mostly for the civilians of Palestine. And even Hamas claims it’s changed somewhat since the original charter.
They launched an entire military operation with the express purpose of murdering civilians at a music festival.
And you’re saying that’s the changed version?
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apparently you won’t tho cause…
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Bro what is you talking about we can see through the astro babe.
You suggested people are supporting Hamas not the Palestinian civilians, you literally said
I’ll believe it when I see it.
It’s literally all over this thread and many others. People support Palestinians. You’re seeing it and not believing it.
Now this is your response? Fuck off Israel’s government are a bunch of pussies fuck yo shit
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“Yeah but this terrorist organization…” Really dog?
With majority support in Gaza.
Have you ever lived under a terrorist regime? When did Palestinians last vote and what is/where the demographics of the population vs eligible voters? What kind of democracy do they have, one like North Korea or maybe they have a government like the US? What’s the name of the president of Palestine? How many generals do they have? Do children deserve to be murdered because of how their parents voted?
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My history is a bit fuzzy because I don’t remember allied forces turning all of France into rubble in response
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Same goes for Israel then, no? Why are they crying about a terrorist attack then, thems the breaks of war, right? I mean you can’t occupy a country and expect no retaliation so why is anyone even talking about this? Just a couple of nations going at it.
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