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tweet by Johann Hari: The core of addiction is not wanting to be present in life, because pour life is too painful a place to be. This is why imposing more pain or punishment on a person with an addiction problem actually makes their addiction worse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP15q815Saw 3 Arguments Why Marijuana Should Stay Illegal Reviewed - By Kurzgesagt
I’ve never used drugs and I hope I never will.
I would hope that legalizing drugs would make drugs cleaner to use (take the impurities away), the governments provide better health care around drugs and the problems they cause, benefit the good (medical) properties of drugs and help out people who use them instead of throwing them behind bars, giving them a chance to overcome their challenges and to even become a working part of the community and the country.
I know that one argument is about criminal activities involved in creating drugs and that they could grow if drugs were legalized. If they really grew in power through legalizing drugs, I don’t know, what would be the best course of action.
I think it would be crucial to add resources in research about drugs. How do they affect their users and how to help making their every-day life better.
Well you missed out, too bad.
Companies that produce legal drugs grow in economic power and political influence but they don’t act like criminal gangs. At worst you get something like Purdue Pharma. Mostly you get companies like Inbev and Anheuser Busch.
Why would they grow? Black markets appear and grow in the presence of prohibition and in the absence of regulation, not the other way around. For decades there has been no black market in most countries for alcohol and tobacco because it’s trivial to buy high quality versions cheaply.
I’ve never met a drug user that enjoyed interacting with drug dealers.
I’ve never used drugs and I hope I never will.
No caffeine, alcohol, or medicine?
Everyone uses drugs. Some are just illegal, for one reason or another. Usually (almost always) it’s political. There’s mostly nothing wrong with “drugs” but there are problems with abuse. Some drugs are also highly addictive and easily lead into abuse. We need methods in place to help people stop using drugs if they need help and better resources for preventing abuse.
Well, caffeine as in Coca Cola, but not often (more often when served than bought myself). No alcohol. Medicine, I think 99% of the time it’s Ibuprofen and that also is not often.
Abuse is one problem, yes. It’s worth mentioning though that not everyone approves even small doses of illegal drug use - no matter was it completely harmless to the user or not.
The point is people who don’t approve of any amount of illegal drug use aren’t making that decision based on logic or science. They’re making it out of an adherence to the law for its sake alone. Most people are fine with drug use to an extent, they just don’t think about it. I’m totally fine with people who have consistent rules about drug use, but I think it’s dumb when people stop thinking where the law begins.
The law is a malleable thing, and it should follow what is best practice based on science and statistics, not just what someone did because it was politically convenient. Marijuana, for example, is controlled as strongly as it is mostly because hippies were using it and it was easy to target them by targeting this drug, not because it’s particularly harmful or dangerous.
Caffeine is more unhealthy and more addictive than marijuana. So you’ve used drugs :)
I spent my college years being stupid-straight-edge, but downed enough caffeine to give me jitters every day. I ended up having to quit coffee for a year and have to moderate my intake so it doesn’t get excessive again.
A bourbon every once in a while is NOTHING compared to that for me.
Isn’t there also a chemical element to it that makes trying to get a heroin-addict to go cold turkey kinda like shaming a diabetic for using insulin?
I have a nerve disorder and the original neurologist kept trying different opiates on me (they didn’t work). I never got mentally addicted, but there must have been some physical addiction because I definitely had withdrawal symptoms when I switched to another type of medication and it was not a pleasant few days. I can’t imagine what it must be like for people with serious heroin or fentanyl addictions.
Probably about the same. They they take low doses usually, only a a subset of users go on to take heroic doses and or IV. That’s what makes it so dangerous, you are yo-yoing dosage trying to find that sweet spot, all it takes is one too large of a dose with a few drinks and you are night night forever, or choke on your own spit or vomit.
Yes. The withdrawal symptoms are real and physical.
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So you’re saying anyone who uses drugs recreationally should be in rehab? You seem quite confident, but I’m wondering if you forgot to think before you wrote this?
I’m not really sold on that. Drug addicts are victims and shouldn’t be penalized but drug dealers definitely deserve jail.
In most of the world people who sell weed are “drug dealers”; are you including them as well?
If it’s illegal in that country, yes.
It should be legal everywhere, but if you’re selling it where it isn’t you’re still breaking the law. Iirc most countries that have it legal also have a lot of regulations on it so selling it in a random back alley without certification would still be a crime.
So what, I’m a victim of an evil drug dealer if I buy weed in Texas but I’m just a satisfied customer if I buy weed in Washington?
You’re engaging in the circular logic of thinking illegal things are bad because they’re illegal and they need to stay illegal because they’re bad. You need to understand the laws have no inherent moral value, and nothing is bad simply because it’s illegal.
They don’t need to stay illegal, I explicitly said they shouldn’t.
But if you’re buying it in Texas you’re likely doing it from a backalley random anonymous guy who takes no accountability and might give you who-knows-what mixed with it. I’d say in those circumstances even selling apples should be illegal.
It’s like comparing prescription Xanax to smuggled benzos from India.
I never met a junkie that didn’t also sell at least a bit to help pay for the habit. I get what you mean, some dealers/orgs are obviously bad people and often these aren’t even addicts at all to their own product, but where do you draw the line.
That’s why I think it’s a difficult thing to handle.
My opinion would be something like this (though it’s probably very flawed as I just thought of it on the spot and I’m not extremely knowledgeable on the subject):
Are you positive to a drug test? Are you willing to cooperate on where did you get them?
Yes-Yes: Confiscation and advice to go to a rehab center
Yes-No: Confiscation and advice to go to a rehab center unless it’s a repeat offense, in that case I’d force the rehab center
No-Yes: Just confiscation
No-No: I’m assuming you’re the dealer, jail
How about fuck all that, and just leave people alone?
If they aren’t harming anyone, leave them the fuck alone unless they ask for help.
They are harming people by selling hard drugs to them.
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What would you consider a “hard drug” that isn’t harmful? Isn’t its very definition a way to distinguish them from soft drugs which are less harmful?
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I just found these drugs on you, which you are obviously using. How’d you like to pee in a cup while a creepy, uniformed man watches your dingdong intensely?
If you don’t want to be watched by a creepy uniformed man you can come to the police station and do it in the toilet.
Or just, not do stuff that’s illegal. If people nowadays still do it knowing they risk jail, risking a brief uneasy situation seems way less threatening.
This is a nice sentiment and everything, but for anyone who is all in on this guy I would recommend reading his book and getting to the “personal responsibility” part.
Say more…
Yup. It’s escapism. Anything to not have to be myself, even if for just a very short while.
A lot of people are in denial about how often they engage in escapism. Whether it’s alcohol, binge watching, reading, gaming, porn or their phone.
Personally I swapped drugs for podcasts, audiobooks, and audio dramas (shout out to BBC sounds). Helps drown out all the negative thoughts.
Not sure if that’s a good idea either, tbh. But I’m still here, so maybe that’s something.
Hope you’re able to get in a better place so you feel less need to escape from life. Not happy, happiness is overrated. But just that you want to live, experience your life, and what happens next.
This is why ADHD is so hard to diagnose and treat in adults. You have found your coping mechanisms, it’s never about escapism or denial.
It took me a long time to realize I was doing exactly that, self-medicating for adhd. Even a small dose of proper medication has kept me off everything else. Too bad it cost hundreds of dollars and took months, once realized. Not to mention fighting the stigma of an addict
If you’re taking Vyvanse, they just released a generic version that’s much cheaper. You might have to ask your doctor to mark that a generic can be substituted.
I appreciate that! My adderall actually isn’t expensive, but it was 500 to be tested at my uni
A lot of doctors even are starting to recommend not medicating as that can disrupt your coping mechanisms and make your issues worse in some cases.
I feel like those doctors must not have much of a clue what having ADHD is like - my coping mechanisms keep me from killing myself, sure, but they do sweet fuck all to help me get my laundry done…
Consider replacing your washer with a fire pit. You’ll find dealing with your laundry less of a chore, because fire.
But maybe not doing laundry as often is better than feeling like an emotionless zombie… medication affects people differently. Maybe “just” coping and surviving is better than being “normal” and productive for some people.
That trope needs to die. Medication doesn’t make me feel like a zombie at all. Not even a little bit. I’d happily take more of my liver could deal with it.
Yea, I’m with you, nah, I need my medication. At least a small dose. I only take 15mg a day anyway
Yep so the doctor would recommend a service to do your laundry, leaves you more “me time” to handle the stress. Taking medication has side effects as well, very few of them are fun. My kid hasn’t gained a pound in a year since starting his medication. Sure it helps him focus, but he’s now falling behind on his growth and has trouble sleeping through the night. You’re trading problems for other problems. Medication is not some magic fix all, that’s pure ignorance.
It’s funny that you think a doctor knows less than you…….
It’s funny that you think a doctor knows less than you…….
A lot of doctors disagree with other doctors. Lots of them straight up don’t believe in ADHD, or adult ADHD in particular. Hell yes I believe I know more than some random random doctor about my own personal experiences, especially if the doctor refuses to acknowledge established medical science.
I understand what you mean, but some people’s lives are very shitty, so I feel it’s a stretch to say it’s never escapism, even among those who have ADHD.
Escaping adhd-er here and present! Except not too present.
Fair I shouldn’t be so absolute, but taking away those coping mechanisms and replacing them with medication or other things can make it worse. Some people just need more “escapes” than others.
I just want to add a plus one for audio dramas, if which the BBC has some great ones, especially some old horror series. Sure, it’s not exactly a replacement, but every little bit helps. I’ve been clean of anything not proscribed for about six months!
Yeah.
One of the huge advantages for me is that, unlike tv/movies/gaming, you’re not exposing yourself to light from a screen.
That means you can distract yourself, but there’s also a relatively high chance you actually fall asleep. Light from a screen really messes up your sleep schedule.
IME also better than trying to sleep, and negative thoughts keeping you awake in the dark.
That’s such a good point overall. Something to focus on without additional unnecessary distractions.
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I get the sentiment, then after thinking about it 10 seconds, I thought “hold on, what about all the CEOs that snort cocaine on top of naked women? Is their life painful, too?”
Those types are likely desperate to believe that they’re living gods that are better than anyone else, and snorting cocaine on top of naked women supports that fantasy. So one could say they are escaping the painful reality that they are just another insecure selfish douche bag.
I mean… sometimes it’s fun to do a rail off some big-ass tittays.
I support and agree with your considered thesis.
Because they aren’t addicted? They’re mostly social/opportunistic users of recreational drugs
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don’t suffer any problems from it, and don’t do anyone any harm.
This right here is called denile. Nobody rocking some form of white powder is doing so without causing harm somewhere. Sure, maybe that’s the case because they are just getting started and their frequency of usage has yet to become problematic, but given time, the white powders will take over. As well, there are a ton of people who
just enjoy drugswill swear up and down that they are in control and don’t have a problem, so again, denile.I’m pro decriminalization because it reduces harm but your comment is pure ignorance.
EDIT Just to clarify, my comment is not aimed at weed
EDIT 2 add shrooms to the not so harmful list
EDIT 3 I find it ironic that someone else posted this today: https://lemmy.world/post/7421035
… People are shot weekly where I live over spats about weed and money. The southern cartels deal heavily in weed and murder swaths of people over it still. Hell Avocadoes led to hundreds-thousands of deaths in Mexico over the last five years.
Let’s not pretend that the drugs that make people money are the ones that fuel deaths.
It’s why we need to legalize all drugs, and decriminalize all drugs.
The amount of denial pot smokers have is ridiculous yes, but don’t give them an out like they aren’t contributing their drop of water into that overflowing bucket.
Great points, and I agree with legalization as well as decriminalization (despite only listing the latter in my first comment).
My edit regarding weed was simply because it just doesn’t belong in the same category as “the white powders”, which are destructive on a whole other level.
My down votes are indicative of the denial that too many drug users exhibit.
My down votes are indicative of the denial that too many drug users exhibit.
The irony is that you’re in denial that you simply made a bad take.
We should have learnt this by now - that chastising people with a bad take, even by something seemingly as innocuous as mass downvoting, actually tends to cause people to hang on to their beliefs harder because they’re being attacked for those very beliefs. It causes them to harden and somehow paradoxically confirms they were right all along. Our brains do unintuitive things quite often!
Nobody bothered to give any arguments against it tough…?
Since ppl obviously disagree with your view - here is some anectodal counter evidence:
When i was younger and went out often, I had a close friend group of like-minded ppl. In that group we experimented with different drugs. The most common one was probably MDMA in pill form, but we had things that where in powder, liquid, crystal and organic form. For new drugs we read up and usually had a trip sitter, all our stuff went through the lab - so we knew what actually was in there. In our high time, we had a trip every weekend and a comming down with some weed. I know for a fact that we did not harm anyone else. Did we harm our bodies? Possibly, but for sure less than smoking tobacco for the same period and frequency would have. Did we develop an addiction? I can’t speak for the others, but i know i did not. And those i am still in contact with have a clean and organized life now.
It will be extremely easy for you, to simply say ‘denial’ and not take in what i wrote. But trust me when i say i know what an addiction is. During my time in the military i developed an addiction to alcohol. I am fine now, but i know how it is to be dependent on a substance and i know how it is to look back at it.
Thanks for the great response
all our stuff went through the lab - so we knew what actually was in there.
I too was friends with an organic chemist. We were luckier than most to have that kind of insight available
My down votes are indicative of the denial that too many drug users exhibit.
No, they aren’t. Most people think your arguments are wrong and awful.
*denial
*The Nile
*Bill Nyle
I originally posted a response listing my experiences with a variety of drugs, but then I saw you’re just calling everyone who disagrees with you a drug user in “denile” so I figure there’s really no point, is there? You clearly don’t want a discussion unless it’s in agreement with you. This is your immovable soapbox and no ones reality is gonna change your ignorant stance. So enjoy yelling at the clouds I guess.
Also, it is denial. It’s not spelled like the dad joke. “Why didn’t the Egyptian know he was drowning?” “He was in De-Nile”
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Are shrooms a white powder? Pretty sure I clearly singled out white powders. I guess other parts of my comment might make it sound like an absolute blanket statement, but I shouldn’t have to reiterate that condition in every sentence.
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Yea but you do hear of a few 20 something year olds who died from “sudden heart attack” “unexpectedly passed”
Do people keep annual statistics of how many people did suddenly?
You never hear about those who know how to properly use drugs because they blend in with non drug users. Nit that there are many of those as caffeine is one of the most used drugs anyway.
I smoke weed sometimes. I haven’t smoked in almost two years and was given some for free and two nuggets will last me a month because I make a bowl last several days. I use it to sleep or enjoy good more. If I don’t have any I don’t think about it.
I too enjoy good more, with or without weed.
As I’ve always said, stay in drugs, don’t do school and always, always listen to your grandparents!
war on drugs is a jobs program for prison employees with minimal education requirements. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4L20t8Dvlg
During the Covid lockdown, when there was nothing better to do, I was watching a court proceeding where a judge was really struggling with this while sentencing a person for possession.
He felt like his hands were tied, and he was essentially forced to sentence a drug user to jail, which doesn’t normally work, but he had already tried all of the other remedies allowed to him. And he basically said, “I’ve seen a few cases where people get clean in jail because they can’t get the drugs. I hope this happens for you.” The sentence was like a month or two.
Cold turkey works for a lot of
I was chatting to a guy who stayed in his room until he was no longer addicted to heroin. He said it was the worst time of his life.
He also said he’d never take heroin again because that’s the last thing he wants to do in the world (get clean again). But he said that’s what they should do to all heroin addicts, lock then in a room until they are clean and they will never what to do it again, don’t give them any drugs to ease their suffering.
Not sure I agree with the guy but I felt it was an interesting view.
Escapism, like how they escaped with my catalytic converter.
no that is capitalism
the invisible hand of the market is taking them because used second hand catalytic converters are really valuable.
they are entrepreneurs! try buying security equipment and buying online cameras and paying for bandwidth like a good capitalist until you can rent your side house to a cop aka be a vassal
Strictly speaking, catalytic converters are only valuable because of emission reduction regulations put in place by foolish communists like youself sir.
If the invisible hand of the market were to be set free, we could all simply go in raw as god intended.
That’s not true, they are valuable because they contain Platinum. They are inherently valuable regardless of why they were installed.
Author of this tweet (I dunno maybe it is copypasta) is a trip.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Hari
Example: Hari is gay. He wrote an article claiming he had sex with men who were members of homophobic far-right and Islamist groups, stating that with drugs and “a lot of flattery” he “coaxed” a nineteen year old Muslim into "wild gay sex.
So he admitted to raping a probably-closeted gay man?
Sounds like, yeah
Here is what he wrote. Judge for yourself.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/dec/13/gayrights.thefarright?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
Now, I doubt that many of these blokes were shagging each other, not least because, for religious reasons, none of them drink, so it was hard to lower their inhibitions. But after a long smoke and a lot of flattery, Mo was fairly easily coaxed. Of course, he seemed a bit hung-up about it afterwards. Since I was nearing the end of my undercover gig, I tried to persuade him that perhaps gay people weren’t evil, especially in light of the fact that he had just been having wild gay sex.
Slam-cut to LA and Russ. He was a harder nut to crack, but at least he could (and did) drink an awful lot of vodka. I’ll spare you the details: suffice it to say that Germany did successfully invade Poland. So what’s the moral of this tale? Part of me wants to trumpet it as a victory for gay rights. Even in the most intense centres of homophobia and gay-bashing, you can still find the odd bit of sodomy. We are, quite literally, everywhere, including (literally) inside homophobes. Part of me is a bit ashamed - in the cold light of day, both Russ and Mo have some pretty repulsive views. But there’s something uniquely rewarding about bagging a homophobe. In fact, I reckon that this should be the new path for the gay rights movement. Every gay reader of the Guardian should henceforth dedicate himself to seducing every gay-basher they can find. Our response to hatred shouldn’t be to hate back; it should be to give them a jolly good seeing-to.
Yeah but I’m not sure if this is even real. It sounds like something from The Onion if it were more R-rated:
On September 11 2001, the smoke and the fumes and the blood were barely settled on Manhattan when I was delegated to go undercover at the Finsbury Park mosque, the most hardline in Britain. Fortunately, I have always found Islam fascinating, and I was able to bluff my way in fairly easily - stuff about needing to rally around to keep up the assault on America at this time, and so on.
But this mosque (which is, by the way, totally atypical of Britain’s overwhelmingly decent and moderate Muslim population) was hardcore. The blokes were swapping videotapes with titles like Jihad tactics: how to kill and kill again.
You guys I think Hari might be gay
At the risk of controversy-- and spoken as a ten year addict now clean for 25 years… I did not feel the motivation to get clean until I was made to fear the consequences of my own vile self centeredness, selfishness, and pain I was causing others and others in my own life. The stern judicial system played a strong role in helping me wake up.
I agree. I’m Abrahamic communist and drugs are harmful to the working class.
I want to be clear that I support heavy deescalating the crusade on drugs. I also support decriminalization for use of drugs, but there should still be legal consequences like forced rehab.
If appealing to empathy worked for convincing the rich and lawmakers into helping the poor and miserable, there wouldn’t be (…as many) poor and miserable.
They’re too busy, uhmmm *checks notes* fighting abortion or some insanely and inherently evil shit like that
